Why Gun Nuts Lie – I Know From Experience
BY Herschel Smith
8 years, 5 months ago
David Smalley at Patheos:
I live in Texas. I’m a gun owner. I have a concealed handgun license. I’ve taught my kids how to fire weapons.
I also understand and appreciate our Constitution. I’m fully aware of the 2nd Amendment, and how its authors wanted to prevent government tyranny. Considering what they had gone through, they had every right to demand such a thing.
When an author begins by giving you his bona fides, watch out. There’s no better way to start an anti-gun rant than to claim that you own guns and truly do, honestly do, sincerely do, understand gun owners. True to form, he treats us to this.
I know enough about weapons to have a near perfect score on my firing test, to know that the “c” in SR9c stands for “compact” to make the weapon easier to hide; and to know that the AR in AR-15 doesn’t stand for ‘Assault Rifle,’ but ‘Armalite’ after the original company who made the gun.
Am I a gun nut? Maybe. But I like to keep myself skeptical and informed. And that includes realizing when I’m being illogically influenced by my culture, and taking necessary steps to correct it.
You see, one thing that’s more important than situational knowledge, patriotism, tradition, or protection, is common sense.
At this nation’s beginning, it made sense for the citizens to be armed similarly to the government to prevent tyranny.
Today, that’s ridiculous. The very concept is outdated. Some have said to me; the point is for the citizens to be “as armed as well as the government.”
For starters, today, the military has fully automatic M-16s. Citizens can’t buy that. You have to get a tamer version: AR-15.
You can’t have flame throwers, bombs, bazookas, Z10 attack helicopters, bradleys, tanks, fighter jets, nuclear reactors, or a plethora of other secret military weapons you don’t even know exist.
So even today, with the 2nd Amendment in full effect, we don’t have the rights to be “armed as well as our government.”
Secondly, what if you were? I could hand you 50 AR-15s, give you 1000 illegal bombs, steal you a couple of tanks, and smuggle in some bazookas, and even let you fully train 500 of your closest friends.
If the government wants your shit, they’re going to take it.
You still wouldn’t be a match for even a single battalion of the United States Marine Corps. Not to mention the Air Force, Army, Navy, National Guard, Secret Service, FBI, CIA, and Seals.
So stop acting like your little AR-15 is going to stop tyranny.
First of all, he’s assuming that the armed forces wouldn’t frag officers who issued such a command. But assuming that the entirety of the armed forces participated in whatever operation Smalley is conjuring, if only several hundred thousand armed Americans fought back, it would be a bloodbath.
This argument – and I’ve seen it numerous times – is locked in the mindset of early twentieth century warfare, oblivious to MOUT, CQB, insurgencies, and fourth generation warfare. A nuclear weapon is of no use when the enemy lives among friend, and friend and foe all look the same. Ask any veteran of Operation Iraqi Freedom how easy it is to ferret out insurgents from among the population or fight insurgents in the shadows.
As for “If the government wants your shit, they’re going to take it,” perhaps so. But then again, perhaps not. You see, the mere existence of the argument itself is evidence against the affirmative and in favor of negation. The government wouldn’t want to ban weapons if they were of no use in destabilizing tyrannical governments. Hitler wouldn’t have wanted the Jews disarmed if he hadn’t intended to do them harm. Also consider the role of gun confiscations in the Armenian genocide. See Dave Kopel, et. al, at National Review, and also Brett Stortroen, Gun Confiscation as a Prelude to the Armenian Genocide.
Finally, those Marines to whom Smalley refers are somebody’s sons. I recall very distinctly a missionary from the European theater years ago during communist rule (I refuse to give his name or specific location) who gave my church the back story behind the falling of the wall in Germany. Night after night the crowds began to grow to tear down the wall. The German army was eventually deployed to shoot the protestors, but remember that the East German army, while working for a communist country, were sons of mothers and fathers in East Germany.
As soon as the army was deployed, grandmothers went to the wall. “Shoot us,” they yelled. The sons of German mothers and grandmothers refused to shoot their own family, and the rest is history. Now recall reader and commenter Fred’s comment on one post.
As for the military; are they still trained on illegal orders? My nephew is in tech school (navy) and I told him before he went in to seek a deep understanding of illegal orders and to make sure they trained him on it. I also told him that if he took his training and turned it on his fellow citizens I would hunt and kill him, this child that I love and helped to raise up. He understood that this is no small matter.
Smalley makes this sound much easier than it will be, that is, if the government ever decides to harm civilians based on their religious viewpoints, gun ownership or some other reason. But war always sounds easier than it will be, yes?
On July 6, 2016 at 7:31 am, MattBracken said:
What will happen in California, where millions of gun owners will become technical felons for possessing an 11-or-greater round magazine? Will their be “example” raids? What then?
What has happened in NY and NJ?
On July 6, 2016 at 9:05 am, tballard56 said:
See Connecticut, where there has been an estimated 15% compliance rate with the law to register your offending rifles – that is pretty much the definition of nullification. I don’t see any law enforcement units kicking down doors to confiscate those guns, although that would be perfectly legal under the law – they are not stupid, or at least they understand self preservation. The People’s Socialist Republic of Kalifornia is a bit different in that they have a de facto gun registration database through the Dealer Record of Sale form that gets completed for every firearm sold in the state. Also, all private sales have to go through an FFL to be legal. California has been setting the stage for their gun confiscation for a while but the question is, who is going to enforce those laws? Even if they devoted 100% of their law enforcement efforts to the job, they are still vastly outnumbered. Sure, you are going to have the Bob Bullard’s out there, but my guess is most LEOs are not going to want to go anywhere near that mess. And, are the people really going to put up with such a large percentage of their law enforcement resources going after what we’re perfectly law abiding citizens before the laws were passed, to the exclusion of real crimes? One thing is for sure, things are going to get ugly.
On July 6, 2016 at 10:08 am, Backwoods Engineer said:
“Sure, you are going to have the Bob Bullard’s out there…” Great EFAD series reference. Good comments, too.
On July 6, 2016 at 11:37 am, Blake said:
I don’t think cops will try to confiscate weapons. Cops are interested in living long enough to collect their paycheck.
However, I think Herschel has it right when he says that government will come at gun owners from different angles, freezing bank accounts, credit cards, IRS audits, etc.
On July 6, 2016 at 12:27 pm, tballard56 said:
That I agree with, which is why it is important to have at least part of your guns “off the books.” Of course they will be going after conservatives, Christians and everything else they find offensive, as well.
On July 6, 2016 at 6:15 pm, GomeznSA said:
Yep, ‘paper’ war can be at least as effective as any other form, and LOTS less dangerous. And some folks still don’t comprehend why a cashless society, particularly one where bartering is banned, is such a huge piece of that type of warfare. It would be well nigh impossible to complete an off the books weapon or ammo purchase if it was required to be done via a credit card………..
On July 7, 2016 at 1:40 pm, Northwest_Raised said:
Credit cards don’t work without a computer. Would people go all Carrie Nation on the system’s machines if they banned the people’s economy?
On July 7, 2016 at 4:54 pm, GomeznSA said:
True enough about computers, but as long as ‘they’ control the computers and the nets, they have established de facto control of the economy, presuming that is the only ‘legal’ means of commerce. Register computers NOW!
On July 7, 2016 at 9:39 pm, Deserttrek said:
plenty of cops will turn on the citizens ….. i believe more will turn than won’t. they are a tribe no different than others but much more dangerous
they wear masks when kicking down doors over minor crap .. look into a drug unit in georgia that has killed and wounded innocent citizens .. in several cases kicking down the wrong door
dont trust any authority figure when the mess starts . .they will gladly eliminate you to keep their own pockets full
On July 6, 2016 at 9:27 am, WardDorrity said:
We can’t overlook the ripples fanning out from the impact of the FBIs clear dereliction of duty WRT the Clinton Crime Family. For many of those fence sitters, it was a nuclear dawn concerning their understanding of just how lawless this regime has become. IOW, for those who might have considered going along with any sort of confiscation / registration scheme, compliance has now become a non-issue.
The rule of law is dead and buried in an unmarked grave. Remember the Ceausescus. And act accordingly.
On July 6, 2016 at 12:27 pm, Merle said:
Great work MattBracken. I follow your post a great deal. You even have gotten my wife involved (miracle). She has listened to Enemies Foreign and Domestic and is now on book 2. Great job!!! By the way I live in Florida and one of my best friends is the retired commander of Seal Team Six.
On July 6, 2016 at 6:17 pm, Travis Lee said:
I expect what will happen is….
Nothing.
Until Citizen X uses a firearm to defend himself or his family,
He will have his home searched, and he will be subsequently arrested, and
Prosecuted for posession of the WRONG firearm, or the WRONG magazine.
Whether such citizens are sentenced to years in prison, or released n probation or parole,
They will be felons: prohibeted forever from owning ANY firearms.
One.citizen.at.a.time.
Will any significant number of people resist with arms?
In California?
I doubt it.
On July 7, 2016 at 1:37 pm, Northwest_Raised said:
I’d venture to guess there would be retaliation against members of the Democrat party if some raid went bad. Moonbeam Brown and his wimps will rely on the honor system here.
On July 19, 2016 at 5:04 pm, Cal_Farmer said:
MB,
Here in Cal, a lot that I know plan on becoming the overnight felon. There are a lot of 80% projects going on and even more stuff will probably just end up going missing. The ammo license scheme is bringing reloading back to the masses here too. Is there the chance that they will make a ‘show’ of some of us? I’d give it a more than 90% yes vote, but we know its coming. Some people already are ‘overnight felons’ from previous bans on things like the .50BMG and other (*cough* Uzi/Tec/ect) bans in the state, so its nothing new to them. And no, it’s not better to run to another state and leave the Peoples Repulik of Commie-fornia. To those who have run, I say good riddance, and to those states they ran to, I can only offer apologies because those types always run when put under pressure. Nope, many of us choose to stand here and battle with this because if we don’t, everyone knows and has seen how it will creep to other states and have to be fought there. The northern part of the state (the future state of Jefferson), the whole eastern mountainous areas, and the central valley are still mostly Constitution loving areas living on generational lands, good solid people.
On July 6, 2016 at 8:26 am, Josh said:
Regarding small arms vs. the US military (and Russian), see Afghanistan.
On July 6, 2016 at 1:49 pm, FaCubeItches said:
Small arms gave the British no end of trouble in Ireland and Northern Ireland, too.
On July 7, 2016 at 11:27 pm, Deserttrek said:
and todays body armor stops many small arms round. night vision and wall penetrating devices give the government the edge in urban situations
On July 6, 2016 at 8:33 am, Andrew Miller said:
Wonder if he subjected himself to all the “licensing and registration” he advocates for.
On July 6, 2016 at 8:46 am, Haywood Jablome said:
Smalley is full of knowledge without the wisdom. He knows that the tomato is a fruit, but doesn’t have the wisdom to keep it out of a fruit salad.
On July 6, 2016 at 8:59 am, Sid Pits said:
As a matter of fact,it is not illegal to own or possess a flamethrower,and bombs and bazooka can be owned with the payment of the appropriate tax.
On July 6, 2016 at 9:28 am, GeoBlue said:
Vote from the rooftops people!
On July 6, 2016 at 10:50 am, Houston said:
What a maroon! First, I would rather have a semi auto AR 15 any day over a full auto or select fire M16 or AK 47. Need my every round to count. I keep remembering Col Hal Moore (Mel Gibson) in We Were Soldiers. “Semi Auto only”
Secondly, Smalley (and everyone else who makes this argument) argues that the tyranny cause for ownership is outdated then goes on to prove it is not by saying “If the government wants your shit, they’re going to take it.” I believe he is saying the government has already reached the point at which we need to be armed and ready.
On July 6, 2016 at 12:17 pm, Merle said:
Houston a fully auto M16 or AK can be mounted on a piece of pvc pipe behind a baracade and used as a force multiplier that does some good when your being over run.
On July 6, 2016 at 4:25 pm, Archer said:
RE: Your second point:
Yeah, the cognitive dissonance is strong among pro-gun-control and pro-government-tyranny types.
On July 6, 2016 at 12:21 pm, Jack Crabb said:
Are people like David Smalley that make this idiotic argument useful idiots or merely idiots?
On July 6, 2016 at 4:03 pm, Archer said:
Yes.
“Useful idiot” and “mere idiot” are not mutually exclusive.
On July 6, 2016 at 4:13 pm, Jack Crabb said:
Thank you, Archer.
What you said is quite true. I will often tag posts of this nature with the “not mutually exclusive”, but I honestly missed it this time.
Your response not only made me smile, but I actually lol’d. Thanks, I needed that.
On July 6, 2016 at 4:25 pm, Archer said:
Glad to be of service! LOL! :)
On July 6, 2016 at 2:43 pm, William The Warlord said:
What a Texas size pile of Hogwash! This guy can not even keep his lies straight!He is living in Liberal Fantasy land if he thinks the Marines or any other Military Unit would even try to unlawfully come and get our stuff.The Officer giving such orders would be lucky to live to see the next day!
On July 11, 2016 at 3:36 pm, ExNuke said:
Unfortunately the Repressive Politician who gave that officer the “mission” resides in the DC Green Zone and has dedicated (purposely assigned) armed troops and Brown Shirts to keep him or her “safe”. Keep in mind Bill Clinton’s “Rules of Engagement” which identified valid targets. I may be too old to fight effectively but before I would “turn in” my weapons to the Government I would “forget where I buried them”. Getting old can play tricks on your memory.
On July 6, 2016 at 3:44 pm, rockin58 said:
Awww hell. I own Flamethrower. I’ve decided to keep it to welcome the haji when he reaches us here in the free State of Texas. Using it after I recite the names of those beheaded and the Jordanian pilot burned alive in that cage. You mean to tell me I’m not allowed to have it?
On July 6, 2016 at 4:22 pm, Archer said:
But war always sounds easier than it will be, yes?
War always sounds easy to the people who declare and wage wars; they don’t have to carry the weapons or get their hands dirty. The boots-on-the-ground people who have to fight in those wars have a far different perspective.
A good rule-of-thumb for our “leaders” would be this: Never order someone else to do anything you aren’t willing to step down and do yourself.
War? Confiscatory raids on American gun owners? You gonna be first on the ground or in the door, cupcake?
No?
On July 6, 2016 at 5:51 pm, Loog Moog said:
Yes, but remember that Hillary has combat experience. She tried to get into the Marines but her cankles were too big, and her “monkey legs” scared the DI’s, And she took fire that time when she was riding in a chopper at the Arkansas State Fair…
Most gun owners have enough firepower to defend their own homes…from WHOever.
On July 7, 2016 at 8:51 pm, ColBatguano said:
And remember she was under “snipper” fire when she got off the plane in Bosnia or wherever it was. The SEAL team commander (Ryan Zinke?) said he was there too. I think he said he was sitting in a lawn chair off the runway. No doubt the webbing on the lawn chair was kevlar to protect him from the “snippers”.
On July 7, 2016 at 10:45 am, Jack Crabb said:
Excellent advice for ‘our “leaders”‘. In fact, this is true of any leader. I’m pretty sure its in the Leadership 101 text books.
However, calling politicians “leaders” is absurd. Virtually all pols are greedy, petty little tyrants and really deserve the rope and lamp post.
On July 7, 2016 at 10:59 am, Archer said:
Oh, I completely agree. We’ve reached the point where actively seeking public office — seeking power — should be an automatic disqualifier for that office. Anyone who wants power for power’s sake should be kept far from it.
Hence the use of scare quotes around “leaders”. They are not fit to lead.
On July 8, 2016 at 10:24 am, Jack Crabb said:
The ol’ Barnhardt Axiom, huh?
THE BARNHARDT AXIOM: The fact that a given person is holding or seeking high-level public office is, in and of itself, proof that said person is morally and/or psychologically UNFIT to hold public office.
On July 6, 2016 at 5:52 pm, TimeHasCome said:
As a former Canadian the Fort McMurray fire proved to me that the firearm compliance rate is near zero . In the burnt out rubble of thousands of Fort McMurray homes were the remnants of many thousands of illegal firearms .Fingers are crossed for a Hillary victory so this party can finally get started .
On July 6, 2016 at 5:58 pm, VonZorch Imperial Reseacher said:
Let’s not forget the Australia Model, in a country without any real gun culture the confiscation programs had an estimated average 20% compliance.
On July 6, 2016 at 6:10 pm, GomeznSA said:
It seems that no one can come up with even a remote ‘guesstimate’ as to how many guns the Aussies kept and even less so the ones that have been ‘infiltrated’ in since the ban er um ‘voluntary’ turn-in. LE types down under ‘surmise’ that there way more guns there now that before, and of course their version of the brady bunch won’t acknowledge the rapidly rising crime rates, but hey, they haven’t had any more Tasmania style mass shootings, well not ‘too’ many at any rate.
On July 6, 2016 at 6:07 pm, GomeznSA said:
It NEVER ceases to amaze me that the guys who claim that SEALs, or Rangers or armor, or attack helicopters or ‘horror’ – nuclear weapons would be unleashed on individual Citizens could even consider such use of force. Someone like me for instance – with over 42 years combined (and counting) in the uniform(s) of my city, my county, my state and my federal government (sometimes more than one at the same time) – What Possible Threat Would I Be That Such Power(s) would ever even be considered to be used on me. IF tptb are THAT scared of little old me that they would even CONSIDER that kind of force to shut me up, they have lost ALL claim to legitimacy, and perhaps they DESERVE to be quaking in their booties.
On July 7, 2016 at 2:09 am, Mark Dietzler said:
David Smalley needs to understand that his head is not safe, should that civil war he so earnestly desires to foment come to pass. As the soon-to-be-late Mike Vanderboegh says, Clinton rules are in effect.
On July 7, 2016 at 12:04 pm, Herman Nelson said:
Sounds like “smalley” needs to check his/her facts before opening their pie hole. YES, you can own a flame thrower. That’s right, without government permission or a permit. As to the “your little AR-15 will do nothing”, Right. It’s on par with “checks in the mail” and “I’ll respect you in the morning”, both are lies. With the current rate of 52,000 NICS checks daily for the last 14 months, I’d say Americans are hedging their bets and voting with their wallets.
Am I “gun nut”? Hmmmm.. No. I’m just one of many many “concerned Americans”.
On July 7, 2016 at 1:16 pm, Strelnikov said:
May we never live to see that day.
But if we must, let us be men together.
On July 8, 2016 at 7:56 pm, Paul X said:
There is never any shortage of bootlickers and useful idiots.