Escalation In The Banker War On Guns And Hornady Posture With New York
BY Herschel Smith
6 years, 7 months ago
Banks and credit-card companies are discussing ways to identify purchases of guns in their payment systems, a move that could be a prelude to restricting such transactions, according to people familiar with the talks.
The discussions are preliminary but could be deeply controversial. Gun-rights groups have long resisted any effort to monitor which Americans own guns; there are federal laws limiting the government’s use of electronic databases of gun sales.
The financial companies have explored creating a new credit-card code for firearms dealers, similar to how they code restaurants, or department stores, according to people familiar with the matter. Another idea would require merchants to share information about specific firearm products consumers are buying, some of the people said.
They’re driving us towards a cash-based exchange for firearms and ammunition. It should be cash-based anyway, you say. I understand the sentiment. Without cash to back up credit cards, you lose the credit card. Besides, that’s poor form. A man always honors his obligations.
But there is more to it than that, and you know it. Even if it’s a firearm that you hold on 90-day lawaway with the local gun shop, you seldom make all the payments in cash. Even if you do, you seldom carry around enough cash to buy a firearm outright. Most of the time, you float it with a credit card or ATM card until the next day, or the end of the month when you get paid.
Even if you don’t do that, many buyers do. This will affect the financial health of everything from local gun shops to large firearms manufacturers. I’ve warned about this before. In addition to the advice I gave firearms manufacturers – remove all avenues of leverage, get out of debt, and cut ties with corporate America – there is much more than can be done. Hornady is showing us the way and is an example of responsible corporate support of our rights and liberties (via TTAG).
Today, the State of New York did one of the most despicable acts ever perpetrated by any state by asking New York banks, financial institutions and insurance companies to stop doing business with the gun and ammo industry.
While it may not make a difference to New York, Hornady will not knowingly allow our ammunition to be sold to the State of NY or any NY agencies. Their actions are a blatant and disgusting abuse of office and we won’t be associated with a government that acts like that. They should be ashamed.
I don’t know if it will make a difference or not, but I know what will make a difference. It would be like trying to herd cats, but if the firearms and ammunition industry could finally avoid the temptation to whore after government contracts, not just FedGov but state, county and local governments too, when they take positions that run contrary to our liberties, it would effectively end this charade in a single day.
So let’s suppose that Daniel Defense, CMMG, BCI Defense, Knight’s Armament, Rock River Arms, FN, Springfield Armory, LaRue Tactical, Ruger, Barrett, Savage and all other firearms manufacturers, refused to sell to governments that took positions like the state of New York where officials were working with banks to effect gun control measures or encourage non-patronage of the firearms community by banks. Let’s also suppose that ammunition manufacturers – Remington, Federal, Double-Tap, Magtech, Winchester, and others – joined them in refusing to sell ammunition to such entities. Thus those entities could obtain neither firearms nor ammunition for government officials, including LEOs.
What do you think would be the outcome of such a large, dovetailed response of the community to this overreach and bigotry? I suspect the bigotry would end overnight. It would certainly end if they inquired if any of the products were to be used in security operations for Bank of America, Citibank, Amalgamated, Wells Fargo, and the other large operations, and also refused to sell to their security teams.
It’s possible to end this bigotry, it’s just a matter of will and strategy. We know what to do, it’s a matter of doing it. You can help by forwarding this article to every firearms and ammunition manufacturer who will listen. The banks can back down from this war with firearms owners before it is too late and unpleasant things happen.
As for Hornady, I suspect they will benefit immensely from this decision. If you are a firearms or ammunition manufacturer, straighten up and pay attention. This is how you do it. This is how you pay your dues and earn the trust and respect of the community. The community rewards such trust and respect.
On May 1, 2018 at 5:35 am, Frank Clarke said:
While the biggest RICO offenders are governments, I feel sure such an action by firearms manufacturers would be challenged with RICO criminal prosecutions. How to stop that…? Hmm… Let me think…
On May 1, 2018 at 7:05 am, Herschel Smith said:
It’s been long standing policy with Barrett not to supply their firearms to those who undermine the 2A. I forget which states are subject to this embargo, but I’m sure California is in that bucket. No one has sued Barrett.
On May 1, 2018 at 7:12 am, Duke Norfolk said:
Yes, it would indeed be a thing of beauty if New York could no longer buy ammo. They’d no doubt go to overseas sources though. But there’d still be some value in this if all US manufacturers denied them, and their ilk.
On May 1, 2018 at 8:16 am, MOTUS said:
With all the regulation of banking is it possible for any bank to base credit decisions on anything other than credit worthiness? Other than buying a home of course, where ethnic matters govern and no income is required.
Banking regulation must be enforced to prevent banks from blocking the use of any credit instrument in the sale or purchase of any legal goods or services. If regulations can not be enforced in such manner, the regulations must be changed.
On May 1, 2018 at 8:18 am, Ned said:
“If the firearms and ammunition industry could finally avoid the temptation to whore after government contracts”
Amen, Herschel.
On May 1, 2018 at 8:53 am, Fred said:
What is slavery? Is it a black man in chains? No, that’s unlawful imprisonment. Slavery is not owning the output of your labor. That’s why debt is slavery.
“The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant [literal = slave] to the lender.”
Debt is NOT capital. Debt is stupid ass’d, self imposed, soul crushing slavery. I owe no man, and that, is the only way to roll. Trying not to be too harsh here but it needs to be said; using debt as capital makes you a follower of the god of expediency and a slave to your lender. You cannot serve 2 masters!
And it is possible to run a business without debt as well. It’s being done all over the country and all around the world. Yes you have to grow more slowly, organically is what it’s called. And you can feed your employees, grow your biz, and feed yourself without debt if you simply get on your knees and seek the LORD.
On May 1, 2018 at 9:03 am, JTwig said:
Removing the option of using credit becomes even more neferious when you combine it with the push the last few years by big banks towards a cashless system.
On May 1, 2018 at 9:55 am, Gryphon said:
The ‘push’ to Cashless Banking has been going on for Years- it started with Credit/Debit Cards and now is moving to Cell-Phone-Linked Accounts and even Phone-to-Phone ‘transfers’. ALL Electronic Transactions are subject to Monitoring and Control by the Banks, because YOU are using (((their))) System.
These methods of Financial Transactions have been neither ‘Imposed’ by the government nor the Banks; it is in Fact, Safer and more ‘convenient’ to use Electronic Transfer Systems than Cash, so Most people have done so, without ever Thinking about the negative consequences of doing so.
I see these Attempts at ‘backdoor’ Gun Control by Corporate Interests, as opposed to the government, (which IS limited, at least by the Threat of the 2A) as a Sign of (((who))) REALLY Controls things, and since the .gov is Failing to advance the Agenda of bolshevik communism, the (((bolsheviks))) are now being forced to OPENLY oppose the Will and Rights of the People, using the Financial System (((they))) Own.
The Idea that Gun Industry Businesses should Boycott .gov organizations is Valid in a purely Political sense, and would be highly Effective. But how long do you think that would go on until the .gov ‘Nationalized’ for ‘National Security’ all Arms and Ammo Manufacturers, forcing them to Provide the .gov and Prohibit them from selling to the Citizens?
As for Individuals, having the Financial Self-Discipline to Save Cash to buy Guns and Ammo with is a No-Brainer. So is Not being in Debt to the Pharisees and their ‘god money’.
On May 1, 2018 at 11:11 am, Hiram said:
I suspect they would panic and either pass a law REQUIRING firearms related companies to sell to government entities or bypass all that and simply nationalize the industry. We are very close to there comrades.
On May 1, 2018 at 12:05 pm, Bill Robbins said:
The NRA is negligently late to this party. Where is the NRA response to the corporate assault on American manufacturers of firearms, and on American citizens seeking to lawful trade with these manufacturers?
What’s the NRA’s response? Giving out “free stickers” to slap on Yeti coolers (but you need to attend the NRA convention to get a sticker). This is pathetic. The NRA should be calling on its members to terminate business with Bank of America, Citi, Amalgamated, etc. The NRA should be calling on members to divest investments in BlackRock funds. The NRA should file a lawsuit against the banksters for restraint of trade, and more.
Yes, I know, some well-informed people have come to see NRA for what it is: a fundraising lobby. I believe the NRA can do better–if it is willing to change its approach and rise to the task. NRA: Get ahead of the issues, or get out of the way.
On May 1, 2018 at 3:26 pm, Heywood said:
My local gun shop really doesn’t want cash. And certainly not credit cards (where they lose 3-5% off ths top). They want checks. Why? They have to PAY THE BANK if they deposit too much cash in any 30 day period. A “handling charge”. Unreal. Criminal bankers and their criminal government protectors.
On May 1, 2018 at 4:33 pm, Torcer said:
So it looks like we’re verging into the punnishment for ‘Thoughtcrime’ territory:
New Colorado “red flag” bill would allow gun seizure for six months or more from those who pose “significant risk” https://dpo.st/2jjDyBV via @denverpost
5 guns taken from Vernon Hills teen who wore shirt featuring white supremacist group, police say
http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/vernon-hills/news/ct-vhr-blotter-gun-possession-patriot-front-tl-0503-story.html
On May 1, 2018 at 4:35 pm, Torcer said:
So it looks like we’re verging into the punnishment for ‘Thoughtcrime’ territory:
New Colorado “red flag” bill would allow gun seizure for six months or more from those who pose “significant risk”
denverpost
5 guns taken from Vernon Hills teen who wore shirt featuring white supremacist group, police say
chicagotribune
On May 1, 2018 at 4:40 pm, Torcer said:
@Bill Robbins “NRA: Get ahead of the issues, or get out of the way.”
Agreed, those of us on the Pro-liberty side need to go on offense.
We need to be selling the idea Liberty as a bulwark against the Liberty Grabbers on the Left.
On May 1, 2018 at 5:28 pm, Jaque said:
If there is a buyer for a product, there will be a seller that will stand up to fill the order. Even if it means that a State owned Ammunition Plant must be built. Or foreign suppliers found. Boycotts against Government never work. I bet SIG steps up and lands a big Ammunition order from NY.
As for the Credit Card companies discriminating against gun buyers, I think they will find many lawsuits headed their way. If a baker can be punished for “perceived” discrimination so can credit card companies.
On May 1, 2018 at 9:38 pm, Not So Free said:
As Jaque pointed out, there are already lawsuits.
If nothing else this is restraint of trade.
Sounds like TPTB couldn’t make it work with Operation Chokepoint so they called in some markers from the bankers which they already control.
On May 2, 2018 at 8:22 am, JTwig said:
“On May 1, 2018 at 7:05 am, Herschel Smith said:
It’s been long standing policy with Barrett not to supply their firearms to those who undermine the 2A. I forget which states are subject to this embargo, but I’m sure California is in that bucket. No one has sued Barrett.”
Thats great for direct and large quantity sales, but there are still plenty of dealers who have no problem selling Barrett firearms to LEO’s in California. Something Barrett has very little control over. With the budgets and federal funds many local PD’s and Sherrif Departments have access to, the mark-up of not buying direct is barely noticed.
On May 2, 2018 at 10:01 am, J said:
As someone that works in a gun store..
Our Policy is…
Itemize Nothing except on a Hand Written Reciept. The Computers are only for looking up products and Distributor Orders.
As for the CC Companies, all they know is XXXX.XX$ has been charged to the card. They get ZERO product information.
As for cash and banks, that I can’t speak of our banks policy.
But I can say, My Boss loves cash and doesn’t tell us to try and get checks instead.
Cash is still King at our Store.
Good Luck to All in The Coming Storm
On May 2, 2018 at 6:01 pm, Donk said:
Ronnie Barrett would not send LA SWAT 50 cals back to them when they were sent in for service becuase they outlawed his product. Rock on Ronny and yes, no one sued them.