The Hazards Of A Militarized Police Force
BY Herschel Smith
11 years, 6 months ago
At PoliceOne.com, one genius SWAT team member makes this remarkable argument.
Tactical teams seeking their terrorist prey in the greater Boston area did so in great numbers — numbers that would make military commanders in Afghanistan envious. Video footage showed the American law enforcement warrior looking for a fight.
Citizens cheered as the second terrorist was captured, jubilation spread across the country. We American Law Men were especially proud as our brothers in the Boston area took the fight to the terrorist. These men and women are true American Patriots — a testament to the “Warrior Spirit” in law enforcement — as tactical teams and uniformed officers brought swift justice and victory.
Warrior. Marine Corps training seeks to seed the warrior spirit, but rather than see themselves as peace officers in the finest tradition of colonial constables, SWAT team members now see themselves as “warriors.” And note the utterly heroic terms he uses to express the recent travesty of justice in Boston. “Looking for a fight” … “proud” … “cheered” … “jubilation” by the people.
But I’ve addressed this issue of the fact that they will never be as trained, qualified, or reliable as a well trained military.
As shooters, remember our rules for safety, trigger discipline being among the top rules. This is true for police and SWAT team members as well. It’s true because of sympathetic muscle reflexes. An example of this kind of bumbling stupidity is the death of Mr. Eurie Stamps, where the police officer stumbled over the top of his prone body (Mr. Stamps had done what he had been told to do and gone to the floor), and in so stumbling, the officer – whose finger was on the trigger of his rifle – squeezed the trigger and killed Mr. Stamps. Mr. Stamps was innocent of all wrong-doing. The name of the officer is Paul Duncan. His first thought when he killed Stamps was, Jesus, was that my rifle?” And it was, and Mr. Stamps is dead.
Now. Let’s discuss something that most people don’t know about Marine Corps training. My son was a SAW gunner in the 2/6 infantry, Golf Company, 3rd Platoon, during the 2007 combat tour of Fallujah and the pre-deployment workup. The senior Marines had experienced a tour of Iraq, and wanted their SAW gunners to have a round in the chamber, bolt open (the SAW is an open bolt weapon anyway), and finger on the trigger. They had seen combat and they wanted their SAW gunners with zero steps to shooting. Their lives depended on it. They also did CQB drills with live rounds, along with squad rushes.
My son had an ID (if I’m not mistaken it was during training at Mohave Viper). He tripped and had a sympathetic muscle reflex, squeezing the trigger of his SAW. He spent an extended period of time in the “room of pain.” They wanted him trained to overcome that sympathetic muscle reflex (which can be done, but it takes hundreds or thousands of hours of drills). He spent the time learning to overcome that reflex, and performed well during his tour. He also tried to teach his “boot” Marines the same way he was trained, but the Marines had begun to change and focus more on cultural sensitivity training and other COIN tools. He got out of the Marine Corps.
Why am I discussing this? Because no matter who you are, no matter how much time you spend, no matter how earnestly you wish it, no matter how many directives you write, if you are a SWAT team member, you will never be trained in such a manner. Never. You will never be trained like a U.S. Marine who has spent every day for a year and a half in pre-deployment workup to do a combat tour of Iraq. Because you will never be trained in this manner, your tactics are dangerous, all of the time, and in all situations. I don’t care how many times you have inexperienced Soldiers spend a week with you doing CQB drills. With the standdown in Iraq and Afghanistan, they oftentimes know as little as you. These tactics place people in danger when there are better alternatives.
Now for the next step. Nor should you be trained like my son. It isn’t within your province to do this. The militarization of the police and police tactics in America is an effort to sidestep Posse Comitatus. It’s a way to have a standing army police Americans rather than have the existing standing army do the policing of Americans. It’s a typical progressive, statist trick.
And just recently I remarked about the fact that I know people who were engaged in open carry near Lake Norman North of Charlotte (N.C. is an open carry state), where LEOs unholstered their weapons and pointed them at my friends. Someone will get killed, I said, and when they do, LEOs will not be held accountable for their hazardous actions.
Now let’s take a quick look at Boston under siege.
A word for you Boston SWAT snipers. You are a hazard to everyone within a solid angle of 180 degrees centered on your rifle muzzle, you dumb shit. Put your weapon away. No one needed you to do that. Rather, good detective work should have been the order of the day. Learn to use your brains.
Hey moron. When there is a child around, get your hand off of your damn weapon. I don’t care about your trigger discipline. When you unholster your weapon I don’t know what you will do. I have a child in my arms. Moron. Learn to use your brain.
There are many, many more such examples, and I’m not sure what the SWAT officer was talking about when he discussed the jubilation America displayed when Boston was locked down like a prison, but around these parts we were livid. We don’t want you. We don’t need you. We don’t see you in heroic terms. We think you’re dangerous and a hazard to the peaceable among us.
Finally, you have no moral right to unholster your weapon and point it at me, my family or my beasts. You don’t have a moral right to forcibly enter my home, and you don’t have a moral right to endanger me, my family or my beasts because you want to “go home at the end of the day.”
Oh, and by the way. I think your reflexive shooting of dogs during your stupid SWAT raids is cowardly and ham-handed (it happens all over America every day). If a dog comes after you when you force your way into a home, maybe you shouldn’t have been in that home in the first place. And most of the time if you can’t handle dogs without reverting to shooting them I think you’re a pussy.
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On May 13, 2013 at 7:10 am, Richard said:
The military also has the Uniform Code of Military Justice and enforces it. LEO thugs in the US have no such restraints or system for ensuring they are not above the law.
On May 13, 2013 at 9:02 am, Chuck said:
When we were training up for Afghanistan back in ’04, I remember what a big deal was made about muzzle discipline, not for just for safety, that was already drilled into us, but because of the hostile message it would send to the locals.
It was hammered into us not to act in a threatening and aggressive manner to the Afghan people. It was a simple concept: if you piss them off, they will not only be less cooperative, but you may turn them against you. Being polite and considerate is a small price to pay to reduce the potential number of IEDs you’ll face down the road.
Later, in country, we spent a good deal of time entering, clearing and searching people’s homes. With the exception of a small number of intel-driven raids, we ALWAYS knocked on the compound gate and asked very politely through our interpreters if we could enter their home and search. We were very careful not to trash the place and did our best not to terrorize the women and children (as much as a bunch of infantrymen in full kit and weapons can do so). There were times when we had to remove the occupants from their homes or move them to a specific part of the compound. At no time did we yell, scream, and point weapons at women and children. Let me say that again for the mentally challenged among those of you in LE who may be reading this:
AT NO TIME DID WE EVER YELL, SCREAM OR POINT WEAPONS AT WOMEN AND CHILDREN.
This point has been raised in numerous posts across the patriot blogs, but it bears repeating: why is it that the US military is required to treat the people of countries it is actively conducting combat operations in better than our own police are required to treat Americans at home?
Will it take running into a complex small arms/IED ambush on the way home from your latest dog-shooting, no knock raid to get your attention?
On May 13, 2013 at 9:31 am, Henry Bowman said:
One critical point that may not have occurred to you “swat guys” that are running amok and “just trying to feed your family” or “dealing out swift justice to the bad guys” is that soon the dollars you’re being paid will no longer buy enough to put one meal on the table. If you don’t understand why, then your are absolutely to fucking stupid to be trusted with a water pick, let alone with a firearm and the power of arrest and deadly force. Will you continue to show up for work and risk “officer safety” for no pay, and be “cut loose” by your department like some worthless confidential informant who is too blown out on crack to be any further use. What will you do then, Jack? Will a lot of people know the things you have done when no one will answer your calls and you can’t even find any ammo? Will you still proudly wear your government costume and badge when all your fancy weapons are locked up and inaccessible to you or already stolen by roaming gangs? Will you beg to be taken into the Patriot/ Prepper community “for YOUR children”? Or, will you have attained a high enough level and “seen too much” for TPTB to let you live? If you think your carrying the Ruling Elite’s piss-bucket makes you a part of their class, you are due for a bitter disappointment. They wouldn’t pour out that piss on you if you were on fire. There are hundreds of examples of this, the latest being Ambassador Chris Stevens being set up for assassination. If you haven’t, at this late date, at least entertained these notions, then it’s probably too late for you and yours. Remember, America is only “great” as long as she is “good”; and that applies to us as individuals even more so. The “good” Americans have the numbers, the weapons (The ones that count), but mostly the “will” on their side. Today, right this minute, which side are YOU on?
On May 13, 2013 at 9:33 am, Bareshelves said:
This is going to end badly because their are those who seek power above any other considerations, especially the Constitution and bill of rights.
And, their judges will agree with them that everything was “constitutional” and correct. If it isn’t concealable, then they will sacrifice some low level personnel, so that no blame can be attached to them.
Their media will help them, just like always.
Forward into our glorious socialist future comrades!
Because you see, it IS the left that is doing this, causing this, although they decline to report upon it.
On May 13, 2013 at 11:24 am, The Learned Sergeant said:
Well said.
I treated the Iraqis far better than I’ve been treated by police officers here in Idaho. In some part it was due to what was expected of us, and another simply out of human decency. Mistreatment at the hands of the police is what turned me into a lawyer following college rather than going back into the Corps.
…and I miss it so very much.
But, that said, bear in mind that a large portion of our police force is prior service. We need to do something about that. We need to make being a cop as unappealing as possible to veterans. We are going to want them on our side when the time comes, not the police.
On May 13, 2013 at 11:25 am, Judgement Required said:
This is exactly the reply I plpaced on Sipsey Street Irregulars…
It is a challenge not to spew profanity in a comment on this article.
It is plain to see pure cowardice in the actions of the goons who ‘bravely’ drove unarmed women and children from their homes, without warrants. Low life cowards. Infuriating.
And this clown is goon jock sniffer. Fecal nasal mouth breathing crack licker.
I will have no pity on any ‘LEO’ who ends up dead while conducting unwarranted military raids on American homes. I will only pity the brave person who dies defending themselves.
Like the ninety year old woman butcherd in her own home in a ‘no knock’ drug raid in Atlanta by knuckle dragging pin heads.How brave of them, the murderous goons.
You’re day is coming. And you will wet your pants and soil yourself when you actually face resistance to your vapid behavior, and sit there bleeding out, wondering why…
III
On May 13, 2013 at 11:28 am, Judgement Required said:
Sorry for the typos folks. Typing While Angry.
On May 13, 2013 at 12:39 pm, Steve johnson said:
Excellent points! It is a fact that you can’t talk, let alone, scream and shoot precisely at the same time. And, any time spent yellng and screaming is time you are not communicating. Then, if you are inadequately trained, your force continuum is reduced to scream and shoot. The more you are trained, the more tools in the tool box of force continuum. If you see someone with their hand on their gun, if they are in the offensive mode, they had better have an imminent articulable threat in front of them. If they are in a defensive mode, as all trained le should perpetually be, then the cop is showing that they are are so untrained as to be dangerous to themself, their team, or any one around them. Then there is the possibility that a drive by media photographer took the picture in the middle of a draw and labels it anyway they want. By law, good guys can’t start gunfights, but they durnsure better be able to finish them! As such, offensive training has no place in LE. Even executing a warrant, or running a raid, is a defensive operation and they can’t shoot unless someone else articulably starts the fight!
On May 13, 2013 at 12:57 pm, CR said:
JUST for the record, that guy with kid is WELL outside the cop’s field of view/attention when the shot was talken….
Kid doesn’t even enter into the calculations at that point. The cop is focussed WELL behind the guy carrying him….
On May 13, 2013 at 1:12 pm, CedricWard said:
Very well stated.
I am repulsed now whenever I see police people…and my first major in college back in 1963 was Police Science. I even applied to be a Police Cadet with the Pasadena, Ca Police Dept. What a joke they were. Glad I wasn’t accepted as they might have turned me into a cretin like they all have become.
Only a massive uprising of oppressed citizens who decide one day they have had enough and all grab their weapons and fire en masse at these assholes will leave the desired impression on them. Maybe then they will reconsider just who they think they are ‘better than’.
On May 13, 2013 at 1:22 pm, Herschel Smith said:
All good comments. I should mention that my source for pics (I forgot to link it) is this. Many more at the link.
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2013/04/surreal-sight-swat-teams-banal-suburbs-boston/64398/
On May 13, 2013 at 1:28 pm, CedricWard said:
Just went over to PoliceOne.com to see what they were about. Went to the bottom of the present article and noticed that ONLY ‘PROFESSIONAL’ LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS can comment on articles.
So, apparently they don’t want ANY OUTSIDE FEEDBACK…just POSITIVE RE-ENFORCEMENT from their own ilk.
These jokers are nothing but a CLAN OF BULLYING THUGS.
It would not surprise me at all if they weren’t ‘fudge packers’ too.
On May 13, 2013 at 3:20 pm, Danne said:
obama supports the Cops……………..
U.S. Department of Homeland Security
National Protection and Program Directorate (NPPD)
Federal Protective Service
National MegaCenter Program
Date: May 13, 2013
To: Federal/State/DHS Agencies
From: National MegaCenter Program
Subject: Flag Action Notification
DIRECTIVE:
The following flag(s) have been directed to be flown at Half-Staff, or a Flag action has been requested:
[X] United States Flag
[ ] State Flag
[ ] Agency Flag
[ ] Other Flag action
TERM:
The flag(s) will be flown at Half-Staff:
From:
DATE: Wednesday, May 15, 2013
TIME: Sunrise
To:
[ ] The Day of Interment
[X] Other:
DATE: Wednesday, May 15, 2013
TIME: Sunset
PURPOSE:
PEACE OFFICERS MEMORIAL DAY AND POLICE WEEK, 2013
– – – – – – –
BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
A PROCLAMATION
Day after day, police officers in every corner of America suit up, put on the badge, and carry out their sworn duty to protect and serve. They step out the door every morning without considering bravery or heroics. They stay focused on meeting their responsibilities. They concentrate on keeping their neighborhoods safe and doing right by their fellow officers. And with quiet courage, they help fulfill the demanding yet vital task of shielding our people from harm. It is work that deserves our deepest respect — because when darkness and danger would threaten the peace, our police officers are there to step in, ready to lay down their lives to protect our own.
This week, we pay solemn tribute to men and women who did. Setting aside fear and doubt, these officers made the ultimate sacrifice to preserve the rule of law and the communities they loved. They heard the call to serve and answered it; braved the line of fire; charged toward the danger. Our hearts are heavy with their loss, and on Peace Officers Memorial Day, our Nation comes together to reflect on the legacy they left us.
As we mark this occasion, let us remember that we can do no greater service to those who perished than by upholding what they fought to protect. That means doing everything we can to make our communities safer. It means putting cops back on the beat and supporting them with the tools and training they need. It means getting weapons of war off our streets and keeping guns out of the hands of criminals — common-sense measures that would reduce gun violence and help officers do their job safely and effectively.
Together, we can accomplish those goals. So as we take this time to honor law enforcement in big cities and small towns all across our country, let us join them in pursuit of a brighter tomorrow. Our officers serve and sacrifice on our behalf every day, and as citizens, we owe them nothing less than our full and lasting support.
By a joint resolution approved October 1, 1962, as amended (76 Stat. 676), and by Public Law 103-322, as amended (36 U.S.C. 136-137), the President has been authorized and requested to designate May 15 of each year as “Peace Officers Memorial Day” and the week in which it falls as “Police Week.”
NOW, THEREFORE, I, BARACK OBAMA, President of the United States of America, do hereby proclaim May 15, 2013, as Peace Officers Memorial Day and May 12 through May 18, 2013, as Police Week. I call upon all Americans to observe these events with appropriate ceremonies and activities. I also call on Governors of the United States and the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, officials of the other territories subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, and appropriate officials of all units of government, to direct that the flag be flown at half-staff on Peace Officers Memorial Day. I further encourage all Americans to display the flag at half-staff from their homes and businesses on that day.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this
tenth day of May, in the year of our Lord two thousand thirteen, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and thirty-seventh.
BARACK OBAMA
On May 13, 2013 at 6:17 pm, Bill Harzia said:
And some of their command and control personnel apparently can’t pour piss out of a boot if the directions were on the heel. Check out the after action report of the March 21, 2009 Lovelle Mixon shooting in Oakland, CA:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/24888834/Independent-Board-of-Inquiry-Into-the-Oakland-Police-Department
It’s 21 pages, but well worth the time to read. If you want the short version, start at page 10, “Summary of BoI (Board of Inquiry) Findings.”
It won’t be too long before some of these guys ask themselves, “Why should I die just so that Lt. Phuc-up canget promoted?”
On May 13, 2013 at 6:47 pm, Roger J said:
It is a fact that the average American big city police force is far more militarized that the Gestapo ever was. It was the SS who carried automatic weapons and had armored vehicles at their disposal. And it was the Tsarist police who turned Maxim guns on the crowds in the street during the February (not the red October) revolution. Their fate: being tossed alive from the rooftops where they had placed their machine guns, by the citizens they had attempted to kill. The Hungarian secret police were rounded up during the 1956 revolution and summarily shot. Many ran and hid, such heroes they were. Lessons from history…
On May 13, 2013 at 7:04 pm, Cederq said:
I like the picture of the two snipers on the shed roof, no rear security. Someone shooting from even a second story window would have perforated their little cops asses and by the time anyone got to them would have bled out. Morons all of them!
On May 13, 2013 at 7:36 pm, Kevin John J Kehoe said:
I will tell you this fact one more time , When my next door Neighbor Died myself and I were going shooting.
We helped out and before you know there were about half a dozen of Suffolk County NY’s Finest.
Some are Kool dudes but not enough, the Tall Mixed Oriental American Officer I spoke to put it in a Nutshell.
When I mentioned I was going to the range and after taking a Half day wanting to say a Prayer over Brian, The Big Guy said no time for a prayer but go shooting instead of letting me pay my respects, The Stall game waiting for the ME and then more BS.
He told me they do not have to practice and he would rather not at all. Too much wasted time.
See if he shoots me, or you, he is covered and since he has a family and would rather spend his time with them. Practice is not necessary because he is protected.
SO NOW I KNOW what to do rather than be a statistic. Others I have spoken to are worried and Do respect what some of US know is the True Rights, but too many are taught the Communist Social Justice Crap.
So be Warned and be armed and definitely shoot quicker and decide who are the Real enemy first.
Warriors are made in battle and preparation.
Butchers and cowards run from battle.
On May 13, 2013 at 7:46 pm, Mark Matis said:
Nothing will change for the better until enough dead pig corpses are stacked in the streets. And it ain’t just the SWAT. The REST of their Brothers in Blue are their enablers.
On May 13, 2013 at 8:52 pm, Wombat said:
Police one comments section.
“#NOTE: Only law enforcement professionals may comment on articles.”
I guess these clowns prefer to live in their cozily manufactured dream world, where the citizenry love and applaud their oh-so-necessary thuggery.
They probably don’t want “civvies” posting because, ummm, y’know, there’d just be a flood of love letters and thankyou notes making any conversation on the article impossible!
Yeah, thats it!
On May 14, 2013 at 12:51 pm, Alex said:
I did not agree with the hole article, but i happen to be a law enforcement officer in a small town in New Mexico. I have two tours of duty in combat, with the military. Several of my close law enforcement friends are the same way. Our tactics far surpass the majority of most but we do not compare our selfs to active duty military. Our tactics have been proven both on the battlefield and on the streets. If you have never worn the uniform of either service, you should not monday morning quarterback any law enforcement officer in the line of duty. You do not know what it takes for law enforcement to make it home to our families safely every night. The difference between Law enforcement and military is plain and simple. I reley on myself every day for my own safety and not a squad or fire team. Like I said before, DO NOT KNOCK POLICE OFFICERS UNLESS YOU HAVE WORN THE BADGE.
On May 14, 2013 at 1:52 pm, Meathaus said:
Alex, you couldnt be more wrong. The difference between law enforcement and police is far greater than that and the fact that you dont see it makes you a dangerous, dangerous man. The function of law enforcement is to serve and protect the population that they work for. You arent fighting a war, its not you vs them, at least it shouldnt be but the fact that you come into the situation with the only difference being that you dont have a squad of fire team is downright startling. The reliance on LE to hire former military members is also a bad precedent, youve been trained to kill and by and large to shoot first, not to police, and thats not something that translates to what policing should be. Save the sad stories of how hard it is to get home every night as well, officer deaths are at a low, the rate has been declining, the job isnt even one of the top ten most dangerous in the country, about half of police killed on the job are killed in traffic accidents, and most of those are not while in pursuit of a criminal or rushing to the scene of a crime
On May 14, 2013 at 2:13 pm, sofa said:
re: “do not knock police offjicers unless you have worn the badge…”
since my taxes pay your salary, the community gets to correct your bad service (and bad attitude that your employers opinions do not matter). not just comment on dangerous inappropriate behavior, but the power to correct pd.
or is that an implicit acknowledgement that pd do not work for the community, but rather for their own interests?
not to mention the desirement to be above the law, and treat their community as slaves who must obey them
what’s the phrase… “rectal cranial inversion”
On May 14, 2013 at 2:13 pm, sofa said:
re: “do not knock police offjicers unless you have worn the badge…”
since my taxes pay your salary, the community gets to correct your bad service (and bad attitude that your employers opinions do not matter). not just comment on dangerous inappropriate behavior, but the power to correct pd.
or is that an implicit acknowledgement that pd do not work for the community, but rather for their own interests?
not to mention the desirement to be above the law, and treat their community as slaves who must obey them
what’s the phrase… “rectal cranial inversion”
On May 14, 2013 at 2:20 pm, Tom Kerr said:
I am SO relieved to find out that I’m not the only one who was deeply disturbed by what amounted to marshal law being implemented in Boston/Watertown. Keep fighting the good fight!
On May 14, 2013 at 2:25 pm, sofa said:
re: “…our tactics far surpass the majority…”
two comments:
1) …an army in our midst
2) same as what the ss said. same as what mao said. same as what the redcoats said.
remember: surprising joe homeowner doesn’t make you tacticool. but it does make you lose the hearts and minds. and it makes joe homeowner study tactics, and prepare for the next time.
On May 14, 2013 at 2:34 pm, Herschel Smith said:
So Alex. Does that mean that I cannot sit on a jury and decide guilt or innocence until I am myself a criminal? It would seem so if one cannot use moral sign posts and benchmarks to assist in deciding, but rather, must have experience.
BTW, my son does have a combat tour of Iraq and he disagrees with you. Where does that put us? I suggest that it puts us squarely in the area of right and wrong, policy, moral decisions, and the like, where tactics are irrelevant to making the decision itself. In other words, if it’s wrong for you to invade another man’s home or disarm me, then it’s wrong. The tactics you use and whether you are wearing a uniform when you do it is not part of the calculus.
Be that as it may, I still claim that your tactics are a hazard to me and my family, and to every peace-loving family in America.
On May 14, 2013 at 2:35 pm, sofa said:
re: “do not knock police offjicers unless you have worn the badge…”
is that an implicit acknowledgement that pd do not work for the community, but rather for their own interests?
not to mention the clear desirement to be above the law, and treat the community as slaves who must obey them, without question.
what’s the phrase… “rectal cranial inversion” !?!
since taxes pay your salary, the community gets to correct your bad service (and bad attitude that your employers opinions do not matter). not just comment on dangerous inappropriate behavior, but the power to correct pd. just like any other citizen.
because if the law doesn’t apply, then there is no law. that argument makes you a guy with a gun who demands to be unaccountable or constrained by tbe norms of society.
On May 14, 2013 at 3:12 pm, Chuck said:
Alex is a prime example of the problem with police officers today. His “us vs. them” attitude and condescension to the lowly citizen is what causes division and resentment. Don’t knock you unless we’ve worn the badge? That is complete and utter bullshit. That implies that the police are not accountable to the citizens, that the citizen serves the police and the government instead of the other way around.
Listen up, Alex: you better goddamn believe we have the right to “knock you” badge or no badge. You serve the citizen, not the other way around. Get your head out of your fourth point of contact before somebody shoves it even farther up there for you.
On May 14, 2013 at 3:58 pm, Doug said:
Got some time? Look at how American law enforcement used to present itself.
http://youtu.be/o-_ZiqeflDg
No snipers. No MRAPS. Warrior attitudes unwelcome.
Law enforcement philosophy of the 1950s seems nearly a complete opposite from what it is today. Ironically, the vintage 1950s TV episode was posted on line by the current LA County sheriff.
On May 14, 2013 at 10:17 pm, Steve Jarvis said:
Alex-
I agree with you. Former LEO here and brother of a US Marine who served 3 tours. He used to tell me daily that the danger I faced in the area around Chicago I covered was more dangerous than what he faced. Guys like this sit around and talk shit about cops until they have something go wrong and then start screaming that the cops don’t show up quick enough.
On May 14, 2013 at 10:22 pm, Herschel Smith said:
Jarvis, I assure you. You will never see any of my readers “screaming” about the police not showing up quick (sic – quickly) enough. We don’t want or need your protection.
Although I will observe one thing I was discussing tonight. This overbearing SWAT presence might only be a blue state problem. I’ll get to this later in another article.
And the danger you face in Chicago isn’t anything like being in Fallujah or Ramadi. Your brother is lying to you.
On May 15, 2013 at 12:02 am, Bruno Pezzey said:
Or he was lying to his brother and telling all sorts of danger-time stories collected from other people. But a police officer wouldn’t ever change a story, right?
On May 15, 2013 at 5:33 am, sofa said:
moron: Yes, there’s a divide, and your comment exemplifies how/why that came about.
Thanks for making Herschel’s point.
Good thing you have mandated continual training on constitutional law! One day, you may grasp the underlying premise that gov’t is a dangerous servant of the people, for the people.
On May 15, 2013 at 6:14 am, Chuck said:
@Steve Jarvis
You got one thing right when you said “the cops don’t show up quick[ly] enough.” Even if one of Mr. Smith’s readers were inclined to call the cops we know it would only be for them to clean up the mess and take the report. Regardless of what one thinks about cops, good or bad, when someone (or three) is kicking in your door at 0300, you are on your own. A smart man has internalized the cliche that “when seconds count the police are minutes away” and prepares accordingly. Even the best cops can’t be everywhere and the courts have ruled they have no duty to protect us anyway. So don’t even start with that “police are our protectors” garbage. You can take that to some left wing or neo-con website where they actually do believe that crap.
On May 15, 2013 at 9:49 am, sick and tired said:
A question for anyone. Did any person or group tell the police/swat/ para military force that they would not leave their house and if so what happened? Any suggestions on what to do in this situation? How would you tell these overzealous trolls no and what would be your reason because it is starting to look as if the constitution does not matter. Damn worried about where this country is headed and tired of all the bullshit. The assholes were poiting waepons at un armed civilians- do any of them realize what that means?
On May 15, 2013 at 7:22 pm, Steve Jarvis said:
Yeah Bruno, I guess I was changing stories about the Chicago area. Maybe you should turn on a TV and you’ll learn that twice as many people have died in Chicago since the start of the wars in the Middle East than soldiers have died during the same time period…. 2:1 ratio as a matter of fact.
On May 15, 2013 at 8:23 pm, Shorty said:
So? Did they all die in firefights or engaged in combatives with Law Enforcement? The Soldiers, Marines, Sailors, and Airmen that died did so at the hands of people they were directly fighting. If even half of those people in Chicago were killed by Law Enforcement, you still wouldn’t be on the same level as most deployments.
Service men and women were dying in ambushes by Shiite Militia squads, Taliban assaults, and IED blasts even with the IBAs, up-armored HMMWVs, MRAPs, CAS, and Drone support. People in Chicago die in drug deals, robberies, domestic violence, and gang shootings with stolen handguns and no body armor.
I’ve worked with Law Enforcement, and I was appalled at how many of them treat nearly everybody they came into contact with like shit. Not all of them, mind you, because I know some good guys. But a lot of them. I worked in the security field for almost 7 years, which is nearly 100% longer than the average time on force for the local PD, and the ONLY time I ever needed them around was when I was legally prohibited from doing something myself. The rest of the time they were a huge liability themselves to the safety of everyone around.
Nobody gives a fuck about your profession.
On May 16, 2013 at 12:11 pm, Chuck said:
Steve, your statistic about the number of deaths in Chicago vs. US military deaths in (I assume) Afghanistan (since we left Iraq at the end of 2011) is irrelevant. If you meant that Chicago PD suffered more KIA during the same period, you’d have no argument from me. Instead, the valid comparison would be how many Afghan civilians died during that time period vs. how many Chicagoans. Or we could just flip your comparison on its head, in other words, compare how many Chicago cops died compared to how many Afghan civilians died.
So, let’s keep this an apples to apples comparison: compare US military deaths to Chicago PD deaths. Exactly how many Chicago cops died in the performance of their duty during that time period? No need to break it out by hostile fire, accident, vehicle accident, etc. since the DOD casualty count includes all of these if it happens in theater.
On January 9, 2014 at 2:46 am, Roger H said:
Alex, F— YOU. By your own reasoning, if we have worn one of the uniforms you mention, then we DO have authority to comment. For you and your ilk to conduct war on U.S. Citizens is EVIL. We will soon start putting you Nazis down. How can you non-humans possibly conduct yourselves in this manner and then go home to your families in our neighborhoods. You started this war. You will lose miserably. The 2-way range will start soon. Looking forward to it. We know we will die. This relieves us of your handicap “making it home safely every day”. The only variable is how many of you SS goons we can take down first.