Why Is Greece Collapsing?
BY Herschel Smith
9 years, 5 months ago
Via WRSA, Robert Gore posts this piece. Robert’s place should be a regular stop through your daily or weekly reads, and I normally like the stuff that Gore writes, but I have to disagree on this, and profoundly so. The problem is more than just missing the point. Missing the point just happens to be missing a very important point, one that needs to be made.
The Greeks blame not just the banker cartel, but the Jew banker cartel for their state of affairs. And to be fair, the global banker cartel is responsible for much of the financial woes we face now, even if indirectly. But that’s the important point to be made.
Goldman-Sachs (as a mere example) appears to be just as influenced by the United Methodist Church as it is Jews, but let’s stipulate for the sake of argument that Jews run the global banks. Without the direct involvement, assistance, and even incestuous relationship with the politicians, the banks couldn’t do a thing to harm the financial system.
Banks cannot make fractional reserve banking legal – only politicians do that. Banks cannot create debt-based economies – only politicians can do that. Banks cannot create money-printing – only politicians can do that. The entire crumbling edifice upon which Keynesian economics is built requires the willing participation of politicians who couple with bankers to fleece the people.
These politicians are elected by the people. This is so in America, which is behind Greece in rottenness of the system, but perhaps not by much. This is true in Greece as well. For years now, the Greek voters have elected communists to office, these communists being in bed with the money people like they always are.
People get the government they deserve and demand. While Gore seems to make much of the supposed revolution against the banker cartel in Greece, even sounding like some sort of purist ideological revolution similar to the founding of America, I know a Greek who is even now visiting Greece, and has known his community of people for a very long time.
His take on Greece is that they are suffering now because they “sit on their asses and do nothing all day.” True enough, even with people working hard all day, a banker cartel can destroy the economic system of a country. But his point is that the people elected communists to office because they want a state-run system. They got what they asked for. It’s unimpressive to argue now that the poor Greeks are victims of either the government or the bankers. The Greeks are victims of the choices they made.
So too will Americans be victims not of the government, nor of the bankers, but of the choices the voters made in the voting booth. And those raging against the machine will suffer in the wake of judgment on the balance of society. God’s judgment is sometimes corporate and collective. The bankers and government are like the Babylonians. God doesn’t approve, but He uses them to create the consequences that teach us all. In the end, they will suffer punishment.
None of this is to say that the bankers aren’t thieves. Of course they are, just like the government. Likewise, the voters are thieves. Anyone who votes to get something for nothing is a thief. And no one should be surprised that when two groups of thieves get together, someone wins and someone loses. The collective moral weakness begets the collective sin, and both groups of thieves will suffer in the postmortem.
On July 8, 2015 at 7:19 am, BobSykes said:
Without fractional reserve banking, there are no bank loans–none, none for housing or cars or education. Moreover, if all the deposits must sit in the vaults, depositors have to pay storage fees.
On July 8, 2015 at 10:34 am, Peter Connor said:
Completely wrong. There are loans available up to the amount of the bank’s deposits, which means loans will be available only to good credits and/or at high interest rates.This is the system that once prevailed. Until PM Robert Peel, British banks were divided into two categories: investment banks, which made loans only, and banks of trade, which provided banking services only. If you deposited money with an investment bank, it was at risk but also could provide a good return.Your choice… Great model, we should return to it.
On July 11, 2015 at 7:44 am, BobSykes said:
“There are loans available up to the amount of the bank’s deposits”
This is a zero reserve model.
On July 12, 2015 at 6:20 am, John Pryce said:
You know, I would rather that bank models were determined by the market. I don’t want the law defining what kind of services bankers are allowed to perform anymore than I want them doing it for me.
.
So I don’t mind fractional reserve banks, so long as zero reserve banks exist.
On July 8, 2015 at 7:28 am, straightlinelogic said:
Mr. Smith,
I do not hold the Greeks blameless for their plight. They voted for the governments that incurred the debt that bought their votes, paid for their welfare state benefits, encouraged idleness, discouraged work, paid off cronies, and did not collect taxes. However, let me turn the question around. I’m assuming you are a hardworking, taxpaying American. According to usdebtclock.org, your share of the national debt is $154,375, and your share of unfunded liabilities is $818,645. This debt has been incurred in your name to buy votes, pay for welfare state benefits, fight useless wars, install a national surveillance state, pay off cronies, bail out banks, and probably many other things you don’t agree with and which a government should not be doing.
Every corrupt, bloated government on the planet, and that includes the US government, the EU institutions, and the Greek government, rests on a foundation of debt and taxes, which are ultimately paid by productive people. Do you regard yourself as honor bound to pay your $1 million plus in direct and future liabilities? Are future generations so bound? If a US referendum was held on that debt tomorrow, how would you vote? Ultimately, modern governments require their citizens to embrace debt and tax serfdom.
That is the larger point of Greece. They are the first, but will certainly not be the last, to reject that fate. Many productive Greeks have already voted Oxi with their feet and left Greece, and who can blame them? Were they wrong to do so? Did they have a duty to stay and fund the corruption? I think not. If the present corruption and illegitimacy that is the hallmark of every government in the world is to end, then their debt and tax life support must be withdrawn. This will redound to the benefit of those who pay the debt and taxes. The Greeks have run out of money to fund the nonproductive. There is some rough justice at work here. It will be the nonproductive who will suffer the most if Greece either stays in or leaves the EU. But the only way the productive will have a chance is if the debt that has been incurred based on their presumed willingness to pay it is repudiated. If the Greeks repudiate and leave the EU, they will discover quickly enough Syriza’s socialist pie in the sky. The only chance the new Greece will have to make a go of things will be to lower taxes, enforce tax collections, and slash benefits. In short, Syriza and its successors will have to make Greece an attractive place for productive people to live and work.
I think soon enough Americans will be faced with the same choice as the Greeks. The question goes to heart of modern governance: Are we obligated to pay the debt and taxes of illegitimate governments and governmental institutions? I am working on a lengthier article that explores that question, and all the moral issues posed by the Greek vote. Thank you for reading straightlinelogic and recommending it to your readers. I look forward to a continuation of this discussion.
Robert Gore
On July 8, 2015 at 9:29 am, Herschel Smith said:
I understand all of your points Robert. My main point is that roots matter. If there were to be a revolution (of sorts) in Greece, it would be more of an ideological offspring of the French rather than the American revolution. If the roots are rotten, the tree will perish.
On July 8, 2015 at 9:52 am, straightlinelogic said:
Correct. But rotten roots and all, more such revolutions are undoubtedly coming. The one silver lining is that the governments that come after, whatever their roots, will be hampered by their predecessors’ bankruptcies and a lack of funds. (If Greece leaves the Eurozone and repudiates its debt, any kind of socialism will be an impossible dream,) Of necessity, some of them may adopt policies that actually promote production and recovery, i.e. freedom, capitalism, honest, gold-backed money, and protection of individual rights, including property and contract rights. Look what happened after World War II. The governments of Germany and Japan, encouraged by the US government, adopted free market policies that propelled economic “miracles,” although their governments and citizens had been among the world’s rottenest. I think that kind of scenario is far more likely than an American revolution-type of scenario where enraged citizenries take up arms, overthrow governments, and replace them with governments in line with our founding principles. Only time will tell.
On July 8, 2015 at 9:51 am, Pat Hines said:
Jews have been removed or curbed in over 100 countries since the birth of Christ, in some cases, they’ve been removed multiple times.
The Rothschild banking system(s) are global in reach and power. They are the controlling faction within the US Federal Reserve, having the third Jew in a row appointed Reserve chairman.
It is well known that Jews, while not 100% in control of Hollywood, control most of the TV and Motion Picture industry by either actual or fiat control. Mel Gibson, anyone?
Jews are instigating the conflict in Ukraine, having one group of Christians killing another group of Christians, something they’ve managed to do over and over again for the last two centuries.
Israel controls US foreign policy completely, no one will oppose them. In most of Europe, Jews have managed to make it illegal to even talk about Jews as a problem, and have made it illegal to even talk about there being a Muslim immigration problem.
World wide there are:
1. The Jew problem.
2. The Muslim problem.
If western civilization, of which Christianity is irrevocably intertwined, does not get a handle on both problems, we will cease to exist.
On July 8, 2015 at 10:06 am, Pellam said:
Do you actually believe that Jewish people meet, conspire and execute plans to harm Christians? That is utter nonsense.
On July 8, 2015 at 10:33 am, Pat Hines said:
Over 80% of the Bolsheviks were Jews who set up the murders of 70 million Russians, most of whom were Christians.
In 614AD, there was the Mamilla Pool Massacre, where Jews murdered over 60,000 Christians near Jerusalem.
Jews have been planning to and murdering Christians for 2000 years.
In the US, Jews head most of the Gun Confiscation Lobby member groups, just look at the executive staff of most of them. Violence Policy Center, CSGV, Brady Campaign, and on and on are all run by Jews. The Southern Poverty Law Center is run by a Jew, the ADL supports all kinds of anti-Christian positions and people.
You have to be willingly blind not to notice this problem.
On July 8, 2015 at 11:18 am, Pellam said:
“Over 80% of the Bolsheviks were Jews who set up the murders of 70 million Russians, most of whom were Christians.”
Without going further, I will point out that your statement above is untrue.
“In 614AD, there was the Mamilla Pool Massacre, where Jews murdered over 60,000 Christians near Jerusalem.”
It was a Persian/Christian war that occurred 1400 years ago. Give me a break!
“Jews have been planning to and murdering Christians for 2000 years.”
I think you have it reversed. In any event, it is a ridiculous statement.
“In the US, Jews head most of the Gun Confiscation Lobby member groups, just look at the executive staff of most of them. Violence Policy Center, CSGV, Brady Campaign, and on and on are all run by Jews. The Southern Poverty Law Center is run by a Jew, the ADL supports all kinds of anti-Christian positions and people.”
Name one anti-Christian position held by the ADL. And don’t give me those they hold solely to prevent discrimination against Jews. As far as individual Jews having jobs and positions, they speak as Americans, not Jews. Only wackos look at their religion.
On July 8, 2015 at 1:24 pm, Pat Hines said:
“Jews ran the camps” – Solzhenitsyn.
http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=249
As for the “Holocaust”, don’t bother. It’s mostly a hoax.
On July 8, 2015 at 1:48 pm, hiernonymous said:
“As for the “Holocaust”, don’t bother. It’s mostly a hoax.”
Something is badly wrong with you.
On July 8, 2015 at 2:28 pm, Pat Hines said:
Gosh, folks, here’s one of my followers. He shows up from time to time to attempt to debate from his Marxist perspective.
In other words, he’s useless.
On July 8, 2015 at 2:31 pm, Pellam said:
“Jews ran the camps” – Solzhenitsyn”
Need to do better than quote a person known to be hostile towards Jews.
As for the Holocaust-my question is: why are the people who question it always also hostile towards Jews? You would think that if it were truly controversial, people with no ax to grind would be studying it at every U.S. University.
On July 8, 2015 at 2:41 pm, Pat Hines said:
Solzhenitsyn was hostile to Jews because he experienced their “tender mercies” in the Gulag. So, of course, he’s an authentic person to quote.
I used to think the “6 million” figure was accurate, until people I trust caused me to do my own investigation into the story.
It turns out there were NO extermination camps at all. Were Jews rounded up and sent to work camps? Yes, that is factual. Was there an assembly line to slaughter them? No, there was not.
Here’s something for you to ponder. All photographs of “gas chambers” were from camps behind the “Iron Curtain” and have been proven to be fakes. All court cases where physical proof is required to obtain convictions from “holocaust deniers” have collapsed from lack of evidence, or evidence that proves there were no extermination camps at all.
Also, food and medicine supplies for the camps was cut off by the Allied bombing campaign for about 4-6 months prior to the end of the war. That’s long enough for starvation to set in and the weak to contract diseases that are deadly to malnourished people.
Last, Elie Wiesel, the prince of the Holocaust story, has been shown to be a complete fraud.
On July 8, 2015 at 3:04 pm, Pellam said:
As I said before, it in incredible that EVERYONE who questions the Holocaust’s existence also does not like Jews. Coincidence? I think not.
On July 8, 2015 at 3:17 pm, hiernonymous said:
Yes, think about the extent to which your mind must be distorted by hate to dive into the intellectual and moral sewer of Holocaust denial.
On July 8, 2015 at 1:42 pm, DAN III said:
Pat,
As you know, the federal politicians leading the tyranny to eradicate both 2A along with our right to self-defense using firearms, are primarily Jewish. Feinstein, Boxer and Schumer stand out.
Why I’ve asked, after the history of the Holocaust, are American Jews so hell-bent on taking away one’s firearms ? It has never made sense to me.
On July 8, 2015 at 2:25 pm, Pat Hines said:
The majority of Jews in the US want whites disarmed, figuring that with their tremendous influence upon the US government, they’ll control government guns to use against us.
Feinstein is interesting, in a small way, because she’s not an authentic Jew. Her father was a Jew, an MD, but her mother was a Russian Orthodox Christian. She sent DiFi to a Roman Catholic High school from which she graduated. However, DiFi has only married Jews. Divorced from her first husband, widowed by the second (whose name she kept), she married a third, Richard Blum, who has made millions from DiFi’s position in the US Senate. DiFi lives in Sea Cliff neighborhood, one of the most exclusive in that city, yes, I’ve seen it personally.
On July 8, 2015 at 3:35 pm, Herschel Smith said:
None of this is relevant to the main theme of the post.
On July 8, 2015 at 3:56 pm, Pat Hines said:
That’s true, Herschel. With the possible exception being that the Greeks are fully aware that the Rothschild banksters are responsible for much of the problem.
Also, somewhat related is that the Rothschild’s have engineered the Jewish dominated government in Kiev, Ukraine and the warfare which is killing Christians on both sides. This is typical of them.
On July 8, 2015 at 4:11 pm, Herschel Smith said:
Again Pat, none of this matters to the theme of the post. No one has any power that they are not granted by the people. The people get to decide what government they want. The Greeks decided to collapse their society, and so now they got what they asked for. The Jews didn’t do it, the Euro didn’t do it, the EU didn’t do it, the ‘banker cartel’ didn’t do it – the Greeks did it to themselves.
The theme of the post is that the finger of blame points to the Greeks. Pointing it elsewhere only proves that you didn’t read the post to begin with or wanted to discuss something I didn’t bring up to begin with.
On July 8, 2015 at 1:41 pm, Archer said:
Dude, Mel Gibson is a devout Christian.
And I’d bet most of the people in control of Hollywood and/or the Federal Reserve have Jewish- or Central-European-sounding names, but are not actually Jewish by faith.
And if Israel has complete control over U.S. foreign policy, why is the Obama Administration working so hard to allow Iran its nuclear capabilities, when part of the plan is, and I quote from an Iranian general, “The destruction of Israel is non-negotiable” (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/iran-nuclear-talks/israels-netanyahu-lashes-out-iran-after-n333851 )? Or are you trying to tell us that all the people of Israel, as a nation, are suicidal?
And what about the U.N., which despite its professions that it seeks civil rights for all peoples has just as many hardcore anti-Semites as any BDS rally, and is constantly trying to officially label Israel as an apartheid state?
Finally, Western civilization is built on Judeo-Christian values and morals. Where, exactly, do you think the “Judeo” part of that phrase comes from?
On July 8, 2015 at 2:18 pm, Pat Hines said:
Sorry, but there is no such thing as a “Judeo-Christian”, that’s Zionist bunk. Western civilization is Christian based, pure and simple. Jews had NOTHING whatsoever to do with our civilization, and lots of resistance to it. Yes, I know Mel Gibson is a devout Christian, he’s been attacked mercilessly by Hollywood Jews, or didn’t you know that?
Ask yourself why secular Israel has never had a Prime Minister that isn’t from the illegal aliens from Europe or their children? All have been Ashkenazi/Khazars, that’s not expected to change.
As for the rest of your screed, I’m giving it all the response it deserves.
On July 8, 2015 at 10:04 am, Karl Ushanka said:
found at WSRA and linked at Ushanka.us. Thanks for being one of the few who is keeping perspective.
On July 8, 2015 at 10:40 am, B-Dog said:
It seems that everyone is putting too much faith in the average voter. Many polls, interviews, and similar venues have clearly show the general aptitude of any population is quite low, especially when it comes to things that matter.
How many voters truly understand the actions and ramifications of politics, economics, media, central banking, trade agreements, Acts, Bills, and so on? Very, very, very few. So if the populace is simply not adequately informed to make sound voting decisions, how can we put so much weight on their decisions to vote “correctly”?
Because I am adequately informed, there is not one single politician currently running for the office of President that I would cast a vote for? How many others can say that? Not enough to make a difference. And then if there where, who could/would we all vote for with enough unity to take the presidency? It’s not going to happen. It never has in the past, and never will in the future.
So where does one lay the blame? Greed. People: politicians, bankers, economists, media, corporate officers, and voters are all to blame because they are greedy. And because they are greedy, the bankers (who ultimately dole out the drug that satisfies greed) can influence the politicians (who should be, but are not, positively representing their voters) to pass laws, Acts, and Bills that satisfy the greed of themselves and some of their constituents. The media, being influenced by the same greed, will perpetuate the lies on behalf of greedy corporations, and backed up by greedy economists, upon the unsuspecting and greedy voting block, who simply don’t know any better, mostly because they are uneducated in the things that matter.
Voters will NEVER effect any significant positive change. So who will? Not the politicians, nor the bankers, and certainly not the corporations. No, the only entity that could ever effect any positive change would be the media who has the ear of the voters. But what are the chances of that? Not much until greed is removed from the equation, and that can only happen after a complete collapse of the economy and fiat. But that still does not mean humans will ever again achieve true Liberty and Freedom.
On July 8, 2015 at 11:42 am, JoeyBtakesTheTrain said:
Thank you Herschel and Robert for the thought provoking contributions. Keep it coming and educating us all. “You shall know the truth and it shall set you free”.
On July 8, 2015 at 7:01 pm, ConservativeSurge said:
You are discounting that Greece is collapsing because the Greeks have changed their mind about the status quo and that they now wish to see it changed. They got the govt they have by choice, but people are allowed to change their mind. See April 19, 1775 for the American equivalent of the Sunday vote in Greece. It is too early to call the race that the Grecians will continue on the same path they have walked before.
On July 8, 2015 at 11:00 pm, Herschel Smith said:
Absolutely not! Voting to “show me the money” isn’t the same thing as what happened in America. The American revolution happened because God-given rights were not being honored. The American revolution is a product of the reformation, continental and English. The French revolution, with its rape, pornography and beheadings, was a product of the enlightenment. Thus did America produce thinkers like B.B, Warfield, Charles Hodge, R. L. Dabney, Jonathan Edwards and the like, and France produce Camus and Sartre.
The revolution in Greece (as it were), is more a child of the French revolution than the American. There is no analogue in America for what is happening now in Greece, unless you want to refer to Obama’s election and idiots stating for the camera that Obama’s election means “I’ll get free gas.”
The Greeks are communists, plain and simple. They didn’t suddenly grow up and adopt Western, Christian values.
On July 9, 2015 at 10:10 pm, ConservativeSurge said:
The Colonials were dyed in the wool monarchists, so again, it doesn’t matter the past governmental tendencies…if even monarchists can turn republican, then socialist (not communist) grecians can see the light. Unfortunately, neither of us will know until about a year from today.
On July 9, 2015 at 11:37 pm, Herschel Smith said:
No. They were “dyed in the wool” congregationalists. There’s a huge difference. Not only that, they were Calvinists. The Greeks are nothing.
On July 9, 2015 at 12:42 am, Paul X said:
“These politicians are elected by the people.”
One problem with your thesis. Electing Tweedledee rather than Tweedledum would not have changed much. The electoral system is rigged. Don’t expect much from a rigged system.
It’s the nature of things for the parasites to increase until the host organism goes to war against them. Democracy changes nothing, a republican form of government changes nothing, constitutionalism changes nothing. The system will always serve the rulers no matter what.
On July 9, 2015 at 12:46 am, Paul X said:
BTW, one point of admiration of the Greeks: they shirk taxes. If only Americans were as good at that as the Greeks are…
On July 9, 2015 at 7:21 am, Catweazle said:
Greece is an development country with first world lifestyle. You dont believe me? Have a look at the granted patents from the european patent office. In 2014 Germany=13086 vs. Greece=23 (no typo!). All that can work with debt only, not with income!