Pistol Caliber Carbines And Personal Defense Weapons
BY Herschel Smith
8 years, 11 months ago
I’m still not convinced about the necessity of the PDW (I carry handguns for PDW), but as I’ve said before, I’m still interested (I haven’t taken the plunge and bought one yet) in a pistol caliber carbine. But I am not a fan of the 9mm. I shoot .45 ACP, .38 Special and .357 magnum (I also have a new FN Five-seveN which shoots 5.7x28mm). But thus far I’m unhappy with the PDWs and pistol caliber carbines I see. There are few in .45 ACP that I’ve been able to find.
This SHOT show has been big in these weapons. SIG Sauer announced their new MPX 9, which looks very cool and very sleek. It isn’t an SBR, it’s a carbine.
If the Kalashnikov is more your style, they have a new 9mm.
Not to be outdone, TNW Firearms has a new 10mm rifle in the AR style.
I’m not too big on 10mm either, but what do you know, they have a .45 ACP version that looks nice (it sells as a pistol rather than a carbine, with no stock).
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On January 24, 2016 at 11:55 pm, Daniel Barger said:
Don’t forget the older KelTec SU2000 which can be had in multiple calibers and can also be had configured to use Glock mags. It folds up to a VERY small footprint that can easily be carried in
a backpack or briefcase.
On January 25, 2016 at 4:43 pm, Herschel Smith said:
I’ve shot one before. As best as I recall, it was only available in 9mm.
On January 26, 2016 at 3:28 pm, AuricTech LIC said:
The SUB-2000 is available in both 9mm and .40 S&W. Meanwhile, Hi-Point offers carbines chambered for 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP and .380 ACP. The Hi-Point carbines are ugly as sin, but have a reputation for reliability.
On January 28, 2016 at 9:56 pm, Daniel Barger said:
It was for a while made in .40SW.
On January 25, 2016 at 11:56 am, Pat Hines said:
I don’t understand the pistol c caliber carbine or SBR; when either AK or AR pistols abound.
I suggest anyone that wants the info, check on the ballistics of the 5.56×45 round out of a 10.5 to 11.5 inch barrel to measure the effectiveness.
On January 25, 2016 at 4:28 pm, Herschel Smith said:
I’m sure you’re right about the muzzle velocity with the shorter barrel Pat. I am not a fan of shooting rifle cartridges out of pistols.
The thing I find more interesting is a longer barrel weapon (whether categorized as pistol, SBR or carbine) shooting pistol caliber rounds. Specifically, it eliminates the need for multiple types and calibers of ammunition in a crunch.
On January 25, 2016 at 6:11 pm, Pat Hines said:
All true.
I like the AR pistol because it uses the standard AR 5.56×45, has Mil-Spec AR magazines, and so forth. Not to mention all of the choices of add-ons, an almost to rich list of “stuff”. I tend to keep that to a minimum, maybe a rail hand guard, optical sight, and sling.
I carry a .40 S&W handgun, though I return to .45 ACP, and don’t want to go with the special AR lower, or magazines, and the like. Like you, I have no use for a 9mm firearm.
It’s a choice of which compromise do I want to endure.
On January 28, 2016 at 1:02 pm, Whirlwinder said:
Why no use for a 9mm firearm?
On January 28, 2016 at 1:35 pm, Herschel Smith said:
It’s personal with me. Not everyone thinks the same. For me, I’ve noticed for both the .40 and 9mm that there is a lot of muzzle snap, probably due to the high chamber pressure (35,000 psi). Versus that, the .45 has a chamber pressure of 25,000 psi, a large boom no doubt, but a slower boom that tends to push rather than snap. I can handle .45 better. I actually shoot more accurately with it.
On January 29, 2016 at 6:19 pm, Whirlwinder said:
I do not know much about chamber pressure and all that stuff. I have an LCR 9mm for concealed carry and a S&W 357 for just plinking around the house, if you know what I mean.
On January 28, 2016 at 2:16 pm, Pat Hines said:
I have no need for one, all of my sidearms have a caliber that begins with a four, not a three.
The only reasonable rationale I’ve ever heard about a 9mm firearm is cheap ammo.
I like SIG pistols. I need to go to a range and fire a SIG P227 so I can see if I want to return to .45 ACP as my carry weapon. Right now, I carry a SIG P229 SAS.
On January 29, 2016 at 6:20 pm, Whirlwinder said:
Yes. Sig makes nice armament.
On January 25, 2016 at 12:35 pm, Barrett West said:
I tend to go back and forth between pistol caliber carbine vs AR, then the same argument of 10″ AR pistol vs 10″ pistol caliber “pistol”. They end up being of comparable size, for the most part.
The issue I keep running into is that pistol ammo starts to get heavy when you compare 30 rounds of 147gr JHP 9mm to 30 rounds of 55gr or even 75gr 5.56 for their relative ‘effectiveness’. It gets worse when you start talking about 30 rounds of .40, 10mm, or .45 Auto, vs 30 rounds of 5.56.
Ultimately, I think it becomes a space consideration rather than a weight consideration – the pistol mags take up a lot less space than rifle mags do. And if you can get a pistol caliber carbine that’s significantly more compact, as well, then it becomes much more worthwhile. I dig the MPX, held one in pistol form with folding ‘brace’ at a friend’s shop the other day, and damn, that’s awesome. Folds up nice and compact, too. But $60 mags are pretty unattractive, plus the up-front high cost of the gun itself.
I am tempted by that new takedown 10mm carbine that takes Glock mags. Very tempted. Because reasons.
On January 25, 2016 at 4:29 pm, Herschel Smith said:
Yea, that kind of looks like a designer magazine for which they could charge a lot of money. How many come with the weapon – one?
On January 25, 2016 at 2:11 pm, Cannoneer No. 4 said:
Marlin Camp Carbine modified to take a Grease Gun magazine would be just the ticket. What is a PDW anyway but a semiauto long barrel submachinegun?
On January 25, 2016 at 2:23 pm, AuricTech LIC said:
One advantage of a handgun-caliber carbine is that the longer barrel can help reduce muzzle flash and muzzle blast, compared either to a handgun of the same caliber or to a rifle-cartridge firearm. In your case, a lever-action carbine in .357 Magnum might be a good, albeit expensive, choice.
On January 25, 2016 at 4:31 pm, Herschel Smith said:
I would rather have a semi-auto pistol caliber carbine. Now, if someone would design a carbine chambered for the .357 magnum, that would be awesome! I’ve got plenty of .45 ACP and .357 magnum in the safe. I think there are too many differences in cartridge to do that though.
On January 26, 2016 at 7:50 pm, joe said:
Ah! … “a carbine chambered for the .357 magnum…” I’d offer as a close 1st cousin — the classic M1 (.30) carbine … perhaps the original PDW… :)
On January 25, 2016 at 5:45 pm, rocketguy said:
I have become a big fan of a 10.5″ 300 Blackout I built. Small case capacity means it doesn’t loose much performance from the short barrel. AR platform so I know the controls in my sleep. Pointy bullet = decent ballistics. Not far behind the 7.62×39 in performance. I can switch between supersonic and subsonic loads without tinkering. Love it.
On January 25, 2016 at 5:47 pm, rocketguy said:
Also, the muzzle blast from the short barrel is surprisingly tame…way friendlier to my ears and my buddy’s than my 16″ 5.56 carbine with muzzle brake.
On May 27, 2017 at 5:03 pm, Reilly Pizsed said:
Regretably Bought one of the TNW pistols. Continuously jams every magazine. Sent it back. TNW sent it back in the same condition, so far have refused to replace. Worthless piece of crap. Big waste of time. I do not trust TNW to deliver a functional firearm and have found they do not stand behind their pistols. Others have said they have had repeated problems producing reliable firearms. Buyer beware. The Keltec Sub2000 is a real joy in comparison.