Bob Owens Hating On Open Carriers
BY Herschel Smith
8 years, 2 months ago
Uniformed security guards are hired by stores to provide peace of mind and serve as a deterrent to casual criminals, such as petty shoplifters and aggressive panhandlers. They are not law enforcement officers, do not generally have good training, and the physical and mental screening for security guards isn’t that high (which is perhaps why we’ve had two security guards go on terrorist killing sprees this year alone).
Aggressive predators are not deterred by either unarmed or armed security guards, but it is relatively rare to seen a criminal so callous that he would murder a guard just to acquire an additional handgun.
A man who would murder someone for a handgun would presumably have no problem doing the same with an open carrier who typically has even less training and general awareness than armed security guards.
We’ve noticed that there are generally only four kinds of open carry stories.
- a group of people open carry as a form of political protest (generally without law enforcement involvement)
- an individual open carries as a form of political protest (often with law enforcement involvement, including occasional arrests)
- an individual open carrier who is oblivious to his surroundings has his/her picture posted to gun forums pointing out his/her utter lack of awareness and generally poor choice of gun and holster.
- an open carrier is attacked for his weapon, with the criminal generally being successful.
We would love to report that open carry deters crime, but there is simply no data suggesting that this is a true statement. Folks, criminals laugh at open carriers. They view them as targets, no different than someone with a cash-filled wallet hanging out of their back pocket as they stand in the checkout line, nose buried in a smart phone and oblivious to the world.
I’ve seen Bob hate on open carriers before, but this is ridiculous. This commentary is completely out of control (I hesitate to call it an “analysis” because nothing is being analyzed).
Bob doesn’t really know that all uniformed security is poorly trained. He doesn’t know that open carriers are even more poorly trained than uniformed security. He also doesn’t know that open carriers have poor situational awareness.
He doesn’t know that open carriers fall into only the four categories he lists. He’s just referring (anecdotally, not analytically) to news accounts he believes he has read.
He especially doesn’t know that criminals laugh at open carriers. In fact, I challenge Bob to supply me with one verifiable instance in public where a known criminal laughed at an open carrier. I’ve open carried many times, and I’ve also been around people I knew to be gang members when doing so. No one – no one – has ever laughed at me. In one particular instance when multiple gang members were heading my direction on the sidewalk (it was four or five of them), they saw me open carrying and decided to cross the road, walk past me, and cross back over when they were clear of me. They kept their heads down and studiously avoided making eye contact with me while walking on the other side of the road.
As I said, this commentary is completely out of control, and I simply have no earthly idea what Bob’s problem is with open carry. There is no law requiring him to do it, so why the negative attention? It’s legal, so what business is it of his to bash the practice? How does a crime against uniformed security turn into open carry bashing? I’m beginning to think this is a psychological issue that Bob has.
What is your malfunction, Bob?
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On October 12, 2016 at 7:38 am, Duke Norfolk said:
Yes, I am sooooo tired of the hostile attitude against open carry that comes from within the “gun community.” It’s so petty and ridiculous and it just gives aid to the real enemies of our rights.
This whole argument is surely made up out of whole cloth. It’s B.S. Sophistry at its worst and no better than the gun controllers’ arguments. He ought to be ashamed. If he has any kind of real evidence to back up his assertions then I’m willing to adjust my stance here, but I highly doubt it.
On October 12, 2016 at 8:30 am, Fred said:
I’m soooooo tired of Bob Owens.
On October 13, 2016 at 10:09 am, Jack Crabb said:
Hear, hear, Fred.
Owens outed himself as a conducting statist a long time ago.
It’s beyond me why is he even relevant on a website that is run by a host that is an excellent clear- headed thinker and one that encourages critical thinking.
On October 12, 2016 at 8:41 am, Douglas Mortimer said:
I gave up on him when he wrote agitprop for the LA Times and I don’t think he has an ounce of credibility.
On October 12, 2016 at 10:09 am, Blake said:
Wow, looks like a bunch of fact free assertions by Mr. Owens.
AZ is an open carry state and, in fact, it is common enough that it is not worthy of comment, other than having a firearms discussion with the armed citizen. Which generally disproves Bob’s generalities.
By the way, the comment about poor choice of holster, etc., well, the gun you have is better than the gun you wish you had.
Good grief.
On October 12, 2016 at 12:35 pm, Archer said:
We’ve noticed that there are generally only four kinds of open carry stories.
He’s forgetting the fifth one: open carrier uses their openly-carried firearm successfully for defense of self or others.
Also the sixth one, the most common of all: open carrier goes about his/her business, not accosted or molested by anyone.
Then again, that sixth one is usually a non-story, so by limiting himself to “open carry stories”, he’s cherry-picking data.
I’ve never understood the OC haters. I’ve always viewed it as a personal choice, based entirely on personal preference, current conditions (including weather), and applicable laws. If OC is allowed and you don’t have a valid CCW license (maybe it’s expired, maybe you just don’t have one, etc.) or CC is not allowed (which was the case in some states until recently), then you OC. If it’s hot/humid and you don’t want to wear an overcoat, then you OC.
Nobody is making Bob Owens OC, so if he doesn’t want to, he doesn’t have to. That doesn’t give him (or James Yeager or Rob Pincus, of “open-carry ass-hattery” comment fame) the right to trash-talk people who choose it for whatever reason or situation.
On October 13, 2016 at 10:43 am, Herschel Smith said:
You know, I like what Rob Pincus teaches most of the time, and I find his videos very instructive and him to be a careful teacher. I would link more to his stuff if readers could watch the videos without paying (e.g., if they were on YouTube or something like that). Generally speaking, there are too many needs for my money (mortgage, food, insurance, auto, tithe, guns, ammunition, etc.) for me to pay to watch a video or be a member of a forum or club. I don’t have a money tree in the back yard.
I hadn’t seen this link of yours. I really think they should let this stuff go. Their data doesn’t meet the statistically significant threshold, and they have no idea what I do when I open carry or whether I have situational awareness.
On October 13, 2016 at 11:58 am, Archer said:
In general, I’d agree with you on Pincus’ (and to a lesser extent, Yeager’s) instruction. They provide some valuable insights and information if you can find it on YouTube or other no-direct-cost source (if I ever genetically engineer a money tree, you’re welcome to a cutting to plant in your yard ;) ). I never meant to imply that they have nothing to offer because of this one set of statements, but re-reading my comment, I can see how that could be perceived. My apologies.
That said, this particular statement was way off-base, and adds little (if anything) of value to the OC/CC discussion or their instruction (it’s not like what they teach for CC isn’t also applicable to OC). Pincus especially comes off as a professional, knowledgeable, and mostly-reasonable guy, so this straight-up ad hominem attack on OC generally does nothing but weaken my perception of him personally.
On October 13, 2016 at 4:10 pm, Herschel Smith said:
Oh, no apologies necessary friend. I was just dismayed to see Rob’s throwdown with OCs because in general I think he’s useful to our community and measured in his approach.
On October 12, 2016 at 12:49 pm, Frank_in_Spokane said:
“I simply have no earthly idea what Bob’s problem is with open carry”
Back when AZ had just become a CCW state (it’s been open carry since territorial days), I recall a seeing a written comment (a letter to the editor, perhaps) that went something like this.
I am an NRA-trained gun owner who has passed my criminal background check and obtained a concealed carry license. Guy who open carry only do so because they haven’t gotten the training, or are unable to pass the background check.
Many (though certainly not all) gun owners who criticize open-carry think that open carriers are either sketchy characters to start with, and / or are harming the public’s image of “legit” (i.e., concealed) carriers. My hunch is that Bobbo is harbors this type of “I’m OK, you’re so-so” leetism.
On October 12, 2016 at 1:11 pm, Herschel Smith said:
Sad if true, but that’s a good working theory. I have mine, but the only reason has nothing to do with feeling the need to be approved by the state when I carry. Here in the communist state of North Carolina, we still abide by Jim Crow laws, and I need my CHP to purchase handguns, or else I have to go to the CLEO for permission for each and every purchase. That is, if I buy from an FFL rather than person-to-person.
On October 12, 2016 at 3:51 pm, Fred said:
maybe I’ll send him a note asking if he is a Jim Crow Democrat. If nothing else, it’s funny.
On October 12, 2016 at 5:49 pm, Blake said:
It’s my understanding that way back in the day it was thought that only criminals carried concealed weapons, hence open carry.
On October 12, 2016 at 4:44 pm, Haywood Jablome said:
“Bob doesn’t know.” That is a summary of the article (or of anything Bob writes, ever) for those of you with time constraints. You’re welcome.
On October 13, 2016 at 7:40 pm, Lina Inverse said:
Yeah, I just came across this gem, “No legally-owned, NFA-registered assault rifles have been used to commit a criminal homicide in the history of the United States”, and, you know, that’s not true. It’s happened twice, once by a police officer.
I’ve been following him because of one good essay he wrote years ago, I’m going to start discarding all the stuff he authors and go to the linked original article when appropriate.
On October 12, 2016 at 10:29 pm, joe said:
“In one particular instance when multiple gang members were heading my direction on the sidewalk (it was four or five of them), they saw me open carrying and decided to cross the road, walk past me, and cross back over when they were clear of me. They kept their heads down and studiously avoided making eye contact with me while walking on the other side of the road.”
Herschel, I think it was probably the look on your face that put the fear of God in them and your gun only had a secondary impact. :)
On October 12, 2016 at 10:42 pm, Fred said:
Herschel is out there being so scare-we to the yutes again. The guy is a menace!
On October 13, 2016 at 7:10 am, Horatio Bunce said:
“We would love to report that open carry deters crime, but there is simply no data suggesting that this is a true statement.”
But there is no data to show the opposite .If someone bent on committing crime sees an open carrier and decides to not commit a crime because of the presence of an armed person , where exactly is that reported? Do criminals log in and testify that they “moved on” because of the armed individual? See the problem there Bob?
“A man who would murder someone for a handgun would presumably have no problem doing the same with an open carrier who typically has even less training and general awareness than armed security guards.”
So my guess is that Bob has questioned at least 50% of open carriers to come to this conclusion . Military vets , ex cops , people that have taken firearms training , , or even the average Joe that takes his security seriously . What ” training” does he mean? The super ninja squad tactical elite high speed operator type? Is he saying criminal types have that training? Btw , someone “who would murder someone for a handgun ” is someone that commits crime as a norm . Whether or not you have a handgun probably makes no difference . They would murder you if they liked your sneakers . [Just look up killings over things like Air Jordans]
“Folks, criminals laugh at open carriers. They view them as targets, no different than someone with a cash-filled wallet hanging out of their back pocket as they stand in the checkout line, nose buried in a smart phone and oblivious to the world.”
That right there is funny . In my state [ Maine] , we have been open carry for as long as I can remember and have yet to see any story of a criminal targeting an open carrier . Maybe we just don’t have criminals here I guess . Or MAYBE the thought they might get shot could be a deterrent . That goes right back to the beginning of my post .
On October 13, 2016 at 8:46 am, Pat Hines said:
Bob Owens is just another knob who thinks his opinions carry weight with other gun owners. The plain fact of the matter is his opinions only matter to those who cannot think for themselves and seek validation by “experts” like, are you ready, Bob Owens.
I respected men like Jeff Cooper, Skeeter Skelton, and others of their era, Bob Owens doesn’t come close to those men.
On October 14, 2016 at 11:05 am, Ned Weatherby said:
BO is getting really tiring with that crap. Thanks to whomever actually visits his site to keep the rest of us informed.
On October 14, 2016 at 11:15 am, firefirefire said:
I prefer Concealed Carry. I don’t want anyone to know I’m carrying. I prefer it be a surprise if they need find out. But to each their own.