U.S. Army Chooses Sig Sauer P320
BY Herschel Smith
7 years, 11 months ago
The U.S. Army on Thursday awarded Sig Sauer a contract worth $580 million to make the next service pistol based on the company’s P320 handgun.
Sig Sauer beat out Glock Inc., FN America and Beretta USA, the maker of the current M9 9mm service pistol, in the competition for the Modular Handgun System, or MHS, program.
“We are both humbled and proud that the P320 was selected by the U.S. Army as its weapon of choice,” Ron Cohen, chief executive officer of Sig Sauer, said in a statement to Military.com here at SHOT Show, the world’s largest gun show, taking place this week in the city.
“Securing this contract is a testimony to Sig Sauer employees, their commitment to innovation, quality and manufacturing the most reliable firearms in the world,” Cohen added.
Whatever. Color me unimpressed. Go look at the model. I’m not a Sig fanboi (nor a Glock fanboi), so I hadn’t really noticed the Sig pistols all that much.
This is God’s honest truth. The first thing I thought when I saw that thing was “The slide profile is very tall and it has a high bore axis and so it will have worse muzzle flip” (well, I say God’s honest truth, but to be completely honest, this thought coincided with the thought “boy that thing is ugly”).
Now to be sure, you can look at the Sig fanboi forums (yes, here are such things), and they swear up and down that Sigs don’t have a high bore axis, and even if they do it doesn’t mean there’s more muzzle flip. That’s a myth. It isn’t real. Seriously, you can’t make this up. Go look at the forums yourself.
Well, here it goes, so listen up. The bore axis is higher in this pistol than any I’ve ever seen (distance between bore and web of your hand in Cartesian space, here think the “y” axis, straight up and down). The greater the moment arm, the greater the force. That’s engineering mechanics to those who have taken courses in statics and dynamics.
Or to little boys who first learn to work a jack when they change a tire. Amusingly, Uncle says “I also don’t disagree with picking the Sig. Or if they’d have picked the M&P. So long as they went with a striker-fired, polymer-framed gun that holds a lot of bullets. And isn’t an XD or Taurus.”
Well, that puts me about 180 degrees out with Uncle, since it eliminates 1911 and XDm, the only two guns I would want to take into combat. I thought about that the other day (“If I had to go to combat, what sidearm would I want to take?”), and while my heart says 1911 because I shoot it better than any gun I have, my head says XDm for its durability, reliability, simplicity and 11 degree 1911-style grip angle.
I could beat on it with a sledge hammer and it would still work, I’m convinced. All of you Glock owners out there, you realize that your grip isn’t the perfect 11 degrees, right? And all of you M&P owners, take your pistol (make sure it has no rounds in the chamber first), look at it from the side, and observe the gap between the front of the slide and the frame compared to lack of gap at the rear of the gun. You can even take your fingers and squeeze the slide together with the frame at the front of the gun. It rattles. This is true of all M&Ps. The slide sits a full 1/8″ off the frame at the front sight.
You see, right? Did you M&P owners do it like I suggested? I don’t like that gap for reasons too numerous to outline here. I don’t shoot 9mm (chamber pressure of around 35,000 psi compared to around 25,000 psi for the .45 ACP), and I don’t have Sigs.
As for other reviews, there is this one from Shooting Illustrated, and in it there are these nuggets.
One of the pistol’s features I really like is the cutouts on either side of the frame, which allow the magazine to be stripped forcefully from the frame when necessary, such as when correcting a double-feed.
Funny, that. I’ve shot thousands of rounds through my XDm, and I’ve never had a double-feed. Not a single FTF or FTE. Not even once. And then there is this.
My overall complaint about the P320 is a net that I’ll cast over nearly every SIG pistol: a bore axis that results in more muzzle flip than necessary.
Well, like I said. So to reiterate my take on the Army decision … whatever. I won’t be getting one.
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On January 23, 2017 at 1:19 am, Frank_in_Spokane said:
From the Fox article:
Even the media that is ostensibly “on our side” of the gun debate can’t write a coherent article on guns to save their backsides.
On January 23, 2017 at 1:23 am, Frank_in_Spokane said:
“nearly every SIG pistol: a bore axis that results in more muzzle flip than necessary.”
The only SIG I’ve ever fired was a P220 in .45 ACP, and that was a real long time ago. But I still recall thinking that it was like shooting a .22.
So, would the 220 not fall into that category?
On January 23, 2017 at 11:17 am, Jack said:
“So to reiterate my take on the Army decision … whatever. ”
My first thought was that the prices of SIGs will skyrocket as fanbois want “the army gun”, and the prices of other pistols will fall. Perfect, as I’m now in the market for a concealed carry pistol and a competition pistol.
I’ll look at the XDm. Any other suggestions? (Not Glock – like you, I hate the grip angle – feels like I’m holding a brick)
On January 23, 2017 at 11:22 am, Herschel Smith said:
FN.
On January 23, 2017 at 11:39 am, Jack said:
Assuming you mean something other than the 5.7.
I currently have a HK USP40 with the competition trigger.
I’m pretty sure you’ve covered calibers before, and I know you’re a 45 fan.
I’d probably go for 9mm for competition – that’s what most use, based on cost (19c vs. 28cents/rnd, and I’m not yet reloading)
Your current thoughts re: caliber for CCW and how the FN works in that caliber?
On January 23, 2017 at 12:07 pm, Herschel Smith said:
Oh, if you mean for concealed, that’s a different issue, and I don’t know. I’d have to look, but you can do that too. I have a 5.7 and love it. I’d take an FN .45 any day. The 5.7 is only barely concealable appendix carry (and a little uncomfortable), and frankly it’s a better open carry gun.
On January 23, 2017 at 1:39 pm, johnmosby said:
High bore axis is why I no longer own any SIgs. Always felt like I was trying to “choke up” on them-grip was wrong. Sorry to disagree guys but the Glock has the perfect grip angle and feel for me . I shoot them better than everything else. Maybe you haven’t practiced with them enough! (kidding)
Best Regards
On January 23, 2017 at 2:01 pm, Herschel Smith said:
“Maybe you haven’t practiced with them enough!” As far as I’m concerned, I haven’t practiced with any gun enough, long gun or handgun.
On January 23, 2017 at 1:56 pm, Archer said:
I always wanted to fire a SIG, and still do. Never have yet, so I can’t judge the “perceived” recoil and muzzle flip. However, the higher bore axis puts the laws of physics to work against the shooter, and that’s generally not a good plan.
I’m also 180 degrees against Uncle. I love my XD (not the “m” model) in 9mm. The shape of the grip match my hand so well it feels like it was custom-molded, and the grip angle aligns the sights just by pointing (I always have to adjust my wrist when aiming Glocks, which I can do but it takes longer to get on target). I’ve had zero malfunctions or failures of any kind and have no qualms about trusting my life to it. And unlike the M&P, you don’t need a tool to strip it down for cleaning and maintenance.
On January 24, 2017 at 1:37 am, Pat Hines said:
I’m a SIG enthusiast, have been now for at least 8 years, or longer. I have three of them, all in .40 S&W. Don’t get me wrong, I like the M1911, just not enough to carry one, even a small one.
My main carry weapon is a SIG P229 SAS, which is factory tuned and has the exterior smoothed to facilitate carry. It has an alloy frame and black coated, stainless steel slide. I installed laminated Rosewood grips on it, for a touch of old school. As carried, the pistol has 13 rounds available, and I carry two spare magazines for it, 37 rounds total.
Functionally, it’s pretty easy to see the P229 has Browning DNA. Easy take down, but no link which Browning had deleted on his P35 High Power. I have no safety to worry about, the pistol is ready to shoot as it is in the holster. It has an internal firing pin block that prevents firing if the pistol is dropped. Double action trigger pull is just over 7 pounds, single action pull is about 4 and a half pounds, very smooth with a crisp break.
I think it’s a shame that the US government insists on a safety similar to the M1911, that’s antique methodology and out of place these days.
That said, if SIG can maintain quality at high volume, the US military will be getting a fine weapon.
On January 24, 2017 at 10:35 am, joefour said:
A commenter over on WeaponsMan blog named Kirk was not impressed (to say the least) with the P320 modular argument …
“I see this “modularity” thing, in regards to the frame of the pistol, as reaching an end state where the commander is stuck with the itty-bitty version of the frame nearly forever, ‘cos that fit the itty-bitty lady hands of the dude or dudette that was in command three years ago, when the pistols were first issued, and now that the “new” is all done wore off, there ain’t no monies in the parts budget to pay for getting him a frame that fits…
“Issue every pistol with a set of frames, they will lose most of them. Buy one size only, they won’t fit everyone. Make the swap a third-shop option, the swap won’t happen, ‘cos third-shop ain’t got the time to custom-fit every fucking pistol to every fucking hand, every time a weapons assignment changes.
“Logistically, a deaf, dumb, and blind Corporal could tell you it ain’t going to work out very well, in actual practice. Units that do a lot of shooting with pistols, and who have the PLL money? Yeah, maybe… Line units? LOL…”