Shooting At First Baptist Church Of Sutherland Springs, Texas
BY Herschel Smith
7 years, 1 month ago
By now you’ve heard of the horrible shooting at the small church in Texas. Take careful note that the perpetrator was done in by an armed citizen.
Another local resident, Johnnie Langendorff, who had witnessed the gun battle, said both he and the unnamed neighbor had jumped in his truck and gave chase.
In a Facebook post, Langendorff’s girlfriend Summer Caddel described how the pair had ‘jumped in my boyfriend’s truck and they chased that sick b*****d down in pursuit until the cops could catch up. He was able to run the shooter off of the road on 539!’
Langendorff told ABC 12 that he’d been speeding at 95mph, while on the phone to dispatch, while the neighbor kept his rifle trained on the gunman’s car.
As they approached a sharp curve in the road, near the 307 and 539, he said Kelley appeared to lose control and his car swerved off the road.
‘That’s when I put the truck in park,’ he said. ‘The other gentleman jumped out, and had his rifle on him. He didn’t move after that.’
Within minutes of the reports of this hitting the air, I had two questions: (1) Why are the FBI and ATF involved, and (2) Why haven’t we heard of a motive?
There is this report discussing the shooter being a member of Antifa, and how according to his own words he intended to start a civil war by “targeting white conservative churches.” If this report is true – and you likely won’t ever hear that in the MSM nor will the FBI or even local law enforcement ever tell you this – it would answer both of my questions.
But let’s assume for the moment that it’s not true. It doesn’t matter why he did it for purposes of my point. It could have been Antifa, Muslim fascists or a belligerent worker who had been fired.
I heard over the national news how some churches had even gotten “permission” to allow a concealed carrier into the facilities. What? Permission? To carry a weapon for self defense? Permission?
Listen to me, Christians everywhere. I’ve harped on this and will continue to until Christians wake up. If you don’t emerge from your slumber, you’ll be run over like a train hit you. You’d better arm up and prepared to defend yourselves. No matter what you have been taught, you are not safe in your places of worship. Make it so. Make it safe for yourselves, your families and your congregants. God expects you to. He demands it.
On November 6, 2017 at 8:22 am, Ned said:
There are half a dozen armed citizens at our church that I can think of. And this is a small town in central AZ. Not much Antifa that I see here, but it takes only one.
Keep a fire extinguisher in my truck too.
BTW – there is no objection by anyone to the men and women carrying guns at my church. No permissions were either asked nor needed.
On November 6, 2017 at 9:25 am, Carl B. said:
“Listen to me, Christians everywhere. I’ve harped on this and will continue to until Christians wake up. If you don’t emerge from your slumber, you’ll be run over like a train hit you. You’d better arm up and prepared to defend yourselves. No matter what you have been taught, you are not safe in your places of worship. Make it so. Make it safe for yourselves, your families and your congregants. God expects you to. He demands it.”
Well said.
On November 6, 2017 at 9:36 am, Randolph Scott said:
I am in total agreement with Herschel on this.
On November 6, 2017 at 12:49 pm, Papa said:
Fake news about Devin Kelley (?)
https://youtu.be/llf2b6G4hSI
On November 6, 2017 at 12:51 pm, Papa said:
TX shooters FB posts etc.
https://youtu.be/8tmwBRgzL6U
On November 6, 2017 at 12:52 pm, June said:
Texas law allows License to Carry (LTC) holders to carry their handguns into churches, UNLESS the church posts signs or notices that either open or concealed or both are not allowed.
A lot of large city Catholic dioceses ban LTC holders from both open and concealed carry, as do some large Protestant churches. I know of LTC holders here in Texas who have left their church after the church banned the carrying of legal self defense handguns in the church. My Baptist church does not have signs and I carry legally as a LTC holder. I hope a lot of my fellow members do as well.
The Private Security industry has managed to prevent churches from having organized and trained volunteer security teams unless they are licensed by the state. This years legislative session did pass new law that churches can have volunteer security teams, they just aren’t allowed to wear any uniforms or anything that identifies them as security and they are not allowed to train together as a team.
Hopefully when the Texas Legislature meets again in 2019 the Private Security lobby can be put in their place and allow churches to organize volunteer groups who train together and properly protect their house of worship. Small churches like the one in Sutherland Springs cannot afford to hire Private Security firms.
On November 6, 2017 at 12:52 pm, Papa said:
Chasing down shooter
https://youtu.be/6fFfV7IxjBY
On November 6, 2017 at 1:37 pm, Archer said:
The shooter (whom I won’t name here) got a “Bad Conduct Discharge” from the U.S. Air Force due to a domestic violence conviction for beating his wife. This should have made him a prohibited person.
My wonderful wife found one report (I need to get the cite from her) that said that the shooter’s in-laws (read: his battered wife’s family) attend the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, which is only 35 miles from his home.
I’m not ruling out his ties to Antifa and targeting “white conservative churches” in general (hell, I’m not ruling out anything yet*), but if this is true it could be a motive for starting at this one.
——
* – OK, that’s a lie. One thing I’m ruling out is, NOT carrying when we attend church or church functions. I’ll be armed, thank you very much.
On November 6, 2017 at 3:42 pm, Papa said:
A reminder:
While at church, armed, please don’t have a firearm discharge.
Where a relarive attends, a security individual had a discharge in the lobby area while the service was going on, at a large church.
Wa
On November 6, 2017 at 3:45 pm, Papa said:
It was quietly handled, a haha excuse given about the “noise”.
On November 6, 2017 at 4:55 pm, jean said:
just a reminder that Nov 4th was ANTIFA rise up day or whatever they called it.
On November 6, 2017 at 5:53 pm, Stephen Scheiwe said:
I hope you or one of your readers can give a bit of insight on mass shooters wearing armor. Is 2 shots to the chest and if needed 1 to the head best practice or are the chest shots wasting precious time. My carry gun is a full size 40 loaded with 180 gn HPs. We sit in the back corner with an easy view of all the doors. Thanks!
On November 6, 2017 at 6:16 pm, Herschel Smith said:
@Stephen,
I welcome reader feedback. No one can know all the possible reactions in all possible scenarios. That said, I can tell you what I’d do.
First of all, know your backstop. If there are other people, you can’t take the shot.
Second, head shot if close, center mass if not. A .40 or .45 center mass, whether body armor or not, will knock the shooter down and leave him with a bruise enough that someone can stop him. In most circumstances.
On November 6, 2017 at 8:15 pm, Blake said:
@Herschel, Stephen: Swat practices two to the groin (below body armor) then one to the head as the head comes forward/down from the groin shots.
On November 6, 2017 at 8:17 pm, Blake said:
Do we know for sure the shooter was wearing body armor/plates?
Anyway, with the prevalence of body armor these days, groin/head seems like the way to go.
My .02.
On November 7, 2017 at 6:28 pm, Bob Kerstetter said:
Can you support your “God expects…demands…” opinion from the New Testament? Thanks.
On November 7, 2017 at 11:35 pm, Herschel Smith said:
@Bob,
It’s not opinion. It’s God’s law-word. You do believe in the ten commandments, don’t you?
I don’t need to be restricted to the NT, as I am not a dispensationalist. The God of the OT is the same as the God of the NT, and all of His law represents and is a function of His character.
The requirement comes from the Decalogue. Thou shalt not kill means thou shalt protect life. Spend some time in this article and get back with me.
http://www.captainsjournal.com/2012/09/25/christians-the-second-amendment-and-the-duty-of-self-defense/
Snip:
John Calvin, commenting on commandment and prohibition, observes:
We do not need to prove that when a good thing is commanded, the evil thing that conflicts with it is forbidden. There is no one who doesn’t concede this. That the opposite duties are enjoined when evil things are forbidden will also be willingly admitted in common judgment. Indeed, it is commonplace that when virtues are commended, their opposing vices are condemned. But we demand something more than what these phrases commonly signify. For by the virtue of contrary to the vice, men usually mean abstinence from that vice. We say that the virtue goes beyond this to contrary duties and deeds. Therefore in this commandment, “You shall not kill,” men’s common sense will see only that we must abstain from wronging anyone or desiring to do so. Besides this, it contains, I say, the requirement that we give our neighbor’s life all the help we can … the purpose of the commandment always discloses to us whatever it there enjoins or forbids us to do” (Institutes of the Christian Religion, Vol. 1, Book 2, Chapter viii, Part 9).
Matthew Henry observes the same concerning Proverbs 24:11-12 (“If we see the lives or livelihoods of any in danger of being taken away unjustly, we ought to bestir ourselves all we can do to save them …”). Far from a weak or forced case for self defense, this is one of the strongest in the Scriptures. Thou shalt not kill means that thou shalt not allow yourself or those around you to be killed, thus says the Lord. It isn’t an option – it is His commandment.
On November 9, 2017 at 12:29 pm, Andrew said:
In Ohio, one is forbidden from carry in a Church, except with express written permission from the pastor.
Kind of discourages church going, as very few of them have a sign on the door saying “concealed carry permit holders welcome” (I know of none) and one would have to risk a Felony (the current punishment if caught) to carry until said permission was given. If it was available at all.
Some churches are said to have “security teams” but you’re back to trusting life to others.
On November 10, 2017 at 5:46 pm, Bob Kerstetter said:
@Herschel
Thanks for taking time to answer.
—
BK