The Heckler & Koch M27 Is The New Marine Corps Rifle
BY Herschel Smith
6 years, 11 months ago
You can read about it here.
My son (former SAW gunner) thinks this is a very bad idea. First of all, it’s a closed bolt system. The SAW was an open bolt system, which allowed the gun to cool.
Second, he had to train the other SAW gunners in his company over a protracted period of time to ensure that they understood rate of fire, proper fire control, etc., gun temperature regulation, and so forth, and got proficient at it on the range. The concept of squad rushes relies on a SAW gunner laying down suppressing fire for the other three Marines in the fire team to rush forward, and then the three Marines carrying carbines to lay down fire for the SAW gunner to rush forward.
This is fixed doctrine, fully embedded into the training materials, range time, and small unit fire and maneuver tactics. Nothing will be the same, and the Marines will have to revamp that doctrine and the follow-on training. There won’t be any SAW gunners to rely on to provide suppressing fire, regardless of what this rifle can do.
That, at any rate, is his take. Perhaps it will work out for them. Say, why isn’t that Marine using a Pmag?
On January 11, 2018 at 8:08 pm, J said:
“An M27 reportedly costs around $3,000. “The price for that rifle is comparable to what we paid for the M4s the riflemen currently have,” Chief Warrant Officer 5 Christian P. Wade, 2nd Marine Division Gunner, told Military.com.”
Well thats just proof of the stupidity of gov’t procurement.
If they enjoy all that extra weight, by all means, have at it.
I have a MR556, i know it’s not exact!
Shoots fine, to damn heavy.
IMO
On January 11, 2018 at 9:36 pm, Herschel Smith said:
@J,
When Daniel came home from Iraq and the first time he picked up my [then] state of the art AR, he said it’s too heavy and he wouldn’t have it. That has led me after a while to purchase a very light forend DD gun (bronze Cerakote).
Notice his stance and grip. He is using an old style grip not the C-clamp grip made popular first by the gamers and then SpecOps and then Chris Costa and Travis Haley. To be sure, when Daniel looks at that he observes that it wouldn’t last fifteen minutes clearing rooms in Fallujah. It’s flashy but not practical.
Still, he is holding that gun the way he is for a reason. He’s also turned in a sort of modified Weaver stance instead of aggressive plates-forward. The reason he’s doing this is [I suspect] the weight of the gun.
It has a quad rail. What are the Marines going to do if placed in a CQB situation clearing rooms or MOUT? A gun that heavy has got to be a problem and hindrance rather than a help.
On January 12, 2018 at 12:14 am, Herschel Smith said:
@J,
Let me also make it clear that I know full well that the USMC has vacillated on whether they will fully retire the SAW. I have so many articles in my in-box on this subject I wouldn’t be able to link them all.
The final assessment seems to be that they will roll them out depending upon circumstances.
In other words, no one will be fully trained and qualified to the SAW normally, and they will deploy with this H&K gun. All of them. Every last one of them, at least, MOS 0311. That’s the way I take it.
On January 12, 2018 at 9:25 am, moe mensale said:
“An M27 reportedly costs around $3,000. “The price for that rifle is comparable to what we paid for the M4s the riflemen currently have,” Chief Warrant Officer 5 Christian P. Wade, 2nd Marine Division Gunner, told Military.com.”
Is that for the base rifle or fully kitted out with ACOG optic, magazines, etc?
A base M4 carbine probably costs DoD ~$600 per unit. Fully kitted the price may be closer to $1,100-$1,200 per unit.
Sounds to me like the US taxpayer is about to get it up the rear again. Hard and dry.
On January 12, 2018 at 10:42 am, Pat Hines said:
The main reason a machine gun fires from an open bolt is to prevent cook-offs and runaway guns. Some machine guns have a fixed firing pin, that sets off the primer as soon as the bolt is in battery. Open bolt weapons, while somewhat accurate, will never be as accurate as closed bolt weapons because you have the full weight of the bolt slamming forward which pushes the weapon off target fractionally.
On January 12, 2018 at 12:02 pm, Herschel Smith said:
I think we said the same thing Pat. Cookoffs happen when gun temperature isn’t regulated like it should be, to which both the open bolt design contributes and the gunner himself.
The SAW gunner can get pretty accurate with his weapon. Daniel deployed to Iraq with an ACOG on his gun.
On January 13, 2018 at 6:35 pm, MN Steel said:
When hauling around the M240B, seems I remember the term “cone of fire”, and full-auto was for suppression/area targets. Same as the SAW.
Guess that concept has been turned into full-auto-precision-marksmen? Perhaps a bipod or tripod would help?
On January 15, 2018 at 3:07 am, Jorge said:
I can see sticking the SAWs in mothballs for Afghanistan patrols – I’m sure it’s easier to haul a 8lb gun up mountains than a 20lb gun – and when nobody’s got enough space to haul the tripod, I guess it makes sense.
But ditching it? The gun has tremendous potential, and was inspired by the experiences of people who ran into overwhelming numbers of the enemy, often at very close range – you want more than 30rds in your MGs when that happens.