Miami Beach Police Draw Down On, Detain, Disarm, And Throw Around Lawful Open Carriers
BY Herschel Smith
6 years, 6 months ago
While traditional open carry is generally banned, Florida law allows the open carry of handguns while hunting or fishing.
To be clear, you can wear an exposed handgun in a holster if you’re fishing — period. It’s completely legal.
There are a few other exceptions.
This fishing exception was apparently unknown by Miami Beach police officers Sunday morning.
The results were almost tragic.
Thank God no one was killed or seriously injured.
Details are still emerging, but here’s what we know for sure:
A group of fishermen — who were lawfully open-carrying handguns — was fishing off of the South Pointe Pier in Miami Beach Sunday morning at around 10:40, when they were confronted by Miami Beach police officers.
At some point during the confrontation, a Miami Beach police officer pointed his gun at the group. At least one man was unlawfully detained and his weapon was confiscated.
Police injured one man’s shoulder when they took him to the ground. He was later transported to a hospital.
So now do you want to hear how the MSM reported this event? Hold on to your breeches boys.
Six armed people who were fishing Sunday morning at the South Pointe Pier in Miami Beach were detained by police and then released.
The anglers, whose guns were openly displayed on their hips, cited a state law that allows people to carry a firearm while fishing, hunting, camping or attending a gun show, said Miami Beach Police spokesman Ernesto Rodriguez.
Park rangers spotted the group about 10 a.m. Sunday and summoned police. The anglers were questioned by police but allowed to stay after mentioning the state law, Rodriguez said.
“Out of an abundance of caution we have assigned two officers to the pier while they remain,” he said. “We are encouraging visitors to use other portions of South Pointe Park.”
It all sounds so peaceful and well-intentioned, yes? So here is a question for you. Abundance of what caution? Exactly what did the police think they were protecting?
Let’s pose a question. “Why officer, you don’t want us to see a weapon on the carriers, but carrying concealed is acceptable, then exactly what are you doing by recommending we stay away from these men? They could be carrying anyway and it be legal, it’s just that we wouldn’t know about it?”
They would only have one answer. “We don’t want you to see peaceable men openly carrying weapons because you may figure out that there is no difference between open and concealed carry except that you don’t know it if someone has concealed their weapons. Then you may demand that these men be allowed to do that everywhere, or at least not oppose open carry, and we can’t have the peasants with the same rights we have, can we?”
But the MSM reporter doesn’t go there, because like all MSM reporters, she got her talking points from the cops. The MSM is an organ of the state. It always has been, it always will be.
One final thing. Let’s stipulate that the cops were poorly bred, uneducated imbeciles for a moment (that’s usually a good approximation for cops). The first thing out of my mouth if I had responded to this event as a cop would have been this. “Hey boys, how’s the fishing? Catching anything today? Let’s talk about what you’re doing here, sirs.”
Unholstering a weapon and pointing it at someone who is peaceable and innocent is the most idiotic, irresponsible, dangerous and thoughtless thing a person can do. The cops truly are morons of the highest order.
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On June 26, 2018 at 3:51 am, DAN III said:
I say AGAIN:
There are no good cops.
On June 26, 2018 at 6:55 am, ragman said:
This has been Florida law forever. For cops to not be aware of this is unconscionable. Fire all of the worthless a-holes and their supervisors just as a start. Every cop organization in Florida must provide training immediately to ensure their sub IQ idiots have at least been briefed on the laws. Incompetentce at every level is the norm. There are indeed no good cops!
On June 26, 2018 at 7:22 am, Heywood said:
I’m sure my ignorance of the law would be an allowable excuse if I recklessly endangered someone.
On June 26, 2018 at 7:36 am, Fred said:
“Unholstering a weapon and pointing it at someone who is peaceable and innocent is the most idiotic, irresponsible, dangerous and thoughtless thing a person can do. The cops truly are morons of the highest order.”
Sub optimal IQ hires that will follow any order, by design, on purpose for your enslavement.
On June 26, 2018 at 8:03 am, Ned said:
Have to go with DAN III. Same goes with MSM urinalists.
On June 26, 2018 at 9:08 am, revjen45 said:
The cops truly are morons of the highest order.
Yeah, but they have carte blanche.
On June 26, 2018 at 11:39 am, Archer said:
“This fishing exception was apparently unknown by Miami Beach police officers Sunday morning.”
I’m calling shenanigans on the part of MBPD.
As posted by Miguel, also quoting The Gun Writer, MBPD was notified of the event weeks ago (read the e-mail sent to the Chief there).
There are literally no excuses; MBPD was notified of a lawful event and reminded this was legal ahead of time, and nobody participating was acting disorderly (except the “responding officers”).
This isn’t “law enforcement”; this is simple assault (for the threats), assault with battery (for the take-down), assault with a deadly weapon (for drawing down), illegal detention (for placing a law-abiding citizen in handcuffs for no legally-justifiable reason), and armed robbery (for confiscating his legally-owned property — at gunpoint).
Would any of us get any leniency from the criminal justice system if we had done any of this?
On June 26, 2018 at 7:43 pm, Donk said:
To riff off of Dan, these orcs will continue to commit crimes against the hobbits until consequences make them reconsider. YMMV
On June 26, 2018 at 10:12 pm, J said:
Just when you thought LE Stupidity could go no higher
On June 26, 2018 at 10:44 pm, Badger said:
“Unholstering a weapon and pointing it at someone who is peaceable and innocent is …”
Don’t know about FL but where I live and many other places that is called Aggravated Assault.
On June 26, 2018 at 11:16 pm, Joshua Smith said:
Murdered by words.
On June 26, 2018 at 11:16 pm, Tojo said:
Went to local cop house today to discuss an issue with TPTB. They were behind locked doors and wanted to talk to me in hallway. Only after I asked to be able to sit down and talk was I allowed in the inner sanctum. I mentioned locked door and he mentioned security and I montioned to his pistol. The leadership are obviously cowards so what do we expect of the guys on the street? A nearby big city paid $110000 in OVERTIME to one of their captains to protect the liberal pos mayor. Would we be better off without cops?
On June 27, 2018 at 12:24 am, Liberty4Ever said:
Sounds like it’s time for a couple of hundred openly armed anglers at a Miami Beach LEO education event. The police need to learn not to point guns at peaceful citizens who aren’t harming anyone. Florida should pass an open carry law for all citizens and not just those who are hunting or fishing. The second amendment has absolutely nothing to do with hunting or fishing. Better still, Florida should pass a strong constitutional carry bill.
On June 27, 2018 at 7:22 am, honeycomb said:
I agree with Liberty4Ever .. time for some freedom loving fishermen to descend into their AO.
On June 27, 2018 at 7:38 am, pj dooner said:
You have it backwards-the state is an organ of the MSM
On June 27, 2018 at 7:51 am, The Walkin' Dude said:
This is why I stay home and prep. Nowhere is safe from being accosted by these coproaches. Best I can do is fortify home and prepare for an eventual siege. One day they will be sicced on us. I plan to take as many with me as possible before I go, when that day arrives. Whether blue helmet or blue line, they all are the same enemy tyrants to me.
On June 27, 2018 at 8:18 am, ChuckInBama said:
It would seem dumb cops are starting to figure out we WILL arm ourselves and seem to fear this.
On June 27, 2018 at 8:32 am, X said:
“This fishing exception was apparently unknown by Miami Beach police officers Sunday morning.”
Strange… if the cops are ignorant of the law, they can draw down on you and cuff you. If YOU are ignorant of the law, they can draw down on you and cuff you.
Keep waving the flag, watching football, and repeating “we live in FREEDOM”….
On June 27, 2018 at 8:37 am, archer said:
They obviously don’t like the idea of the public being armed, they knew the law but still tried to intimidate and threaten, pointing a loaded weapon at someone is the height of idiocy, one of the first things you learn about handling a firearm.
On June 27, 2018 at 8:42 am, William Wynn said:
Ok…devils advocate. Sure the cops SHOULD know the laws, right! After all they ARE leo. If these “guys” fishing would have been in a boat in some canal and F& WL would have done this i would have a MAJOR issue with the same leo response. But we are on a public pier in view of said public. Now let us be serious, why are we all carrying? It’s thu leew…really? Sure, hell when I visited my dad living at the time in Miami Lakes I (legally) concealed carry…damn right! But because you CAN do a thing does not by necessity mean you should. though legal, I have to believe this to be a ” oh yes I can” moment. Jus sayin.
On June 27, 2018 at 9:01 am, Karenly said:
Cops everywhere are soooooo done. No human being is ever going to help them when they need it the most. When society breaks down (and that will be very soon), people will help the gangs finish them off.
Wake up guys. You are going to need the help of civilians for your very survival.
On June 27, 2018 at 9:14 am, Arizona said:
GOD,GUNS,and GUTS,its what made america free,THE WOLVES IN SHEEPS CLOTHING,remember the BIBLE told you who these filth are in the police gangs,yet some how it was lost on the people,THEY PREY ON CHILDREN,they kill them,they kidnap them,WHY DO YOU NEED THE FILTH OF THE EARTH TO PROTECT YOU….ARE americans really as stupid as they say in other countries….
On June 27, 2018 at 9:20 am, Jc said:
No one is mentioning that the Park Rangers were the ones who were seriously ignorant of the law which pertained mostly to them.
On June 27, 2018 at 9:39 am, Herschel Smith said:
@William,
Now. Replace carrying guns with speaking about Christ on the street corner (Muslims see that as a threat just like progs see guns as a threat) and see just how stupid and ridiculous it sounds.
Because. Stupid and ridiculous.
I live in NC where we are a gold star open carry state. No one gives me a second look when I open carry in Publix grocery store in Gastonia, NC.
Because. God-given rights.
On June 27, 2018 at 9:43 am, mikrat said:
“On June 26, 2018 at 9:08 am, revjen45 said:
The cops truly are morons of the highest order.
Yeah, but they have carte blanche.”
They have they have Carte Blanche only because WE have allowed it.
And the Cuckservitive sheeple keep putting them on a pedestal as they are brainwashed by the 25 cop/”Justice” shows on the TV every Night showing how good cops are and that they always get the bad guy and never do any wrong.
On June 27, 2018 at 11:03 am, Macko said:
About 6 months to a year ago there was some activity in the open carry movement in Florida. I wish I had a link but, an LEO made a statement concerning encountering an open carry individual with weapon drawn when responding to criminal activity. He sure made it sound as if the lawful open carry person could expect to get shot by the responding officer
On June 27, 2018 at 11:04 am, Dexter said:
Hey you retards in uniforms , remeber there are more of us then there are of you so do your jobs and stop being stupid this why cops get shot and killed because thier little tin badge gives them courage and retards the brain much like alchol does to a drunk …
On June 27, 2018 at 11:15 am, DDrake said:
Miami – COMMIE
On June 27, 2018 at 11:52 am, Jason said:
Most cops are union members and every union is run by communist Demokrats.
See any connection?
JJ The Fed
On June 27, 2018 at 1:13 pm, wally58 said:
Cops in the USA have become THUGS with little regard for anyone but another cop. They are being trained in ITSAHELL by the THUG MOSSAD. Mossad training shows the cops to use extreme force in all situations, even routine traffic stops. Cops are usually chrome-dome steroid-using units like the guy in the photo. They are recruited as likely to having a Rambo-Image and lower IQ. Their idea of the USA is TO HELL WITH THE US CONSTITUTION and “We cops do as we please!”
On June 27, 2018 at 1:57 pm, CB said:
And The Winner Is!
—-Fred—-
“Sub optimal IQ hires that will follow any order, by design, on purpose for your enslavement.”
“I wuz jus followin’ orders…..
It didn’t work at Nuremberg Mr. Cop. It won’t save you when SHTF here.
On June 27, 2018 at 2:01 pm, LMoore said:
Not EVERY cop is bad. I know of one good one on the great plains of Colorado. Has a heart for kids and is always encouraging them to do right. But it sure is sad that most are not out there to serve and protect any more.
On June 27, 2018 at 2:12 pm, mikrat said:
@ Dexter…
They are doing their jobs, thats the problem. They are not there to protect and serve you or I. They are Fund Collectors for the Corporations called THE CITY OF xxxx.
Also – Where in the Constitution does it give Corporations the power to form Militant Forces to EnFORCE the Corp Rules on any of us? That Right – Nowhere.
Get rid of the Corporate Cops and get the no better than cops Sheriffs back in line – Then we may be in a better place.
On June 27, 2018 at 2:31 pm, moe mensale said:
Florida Carry always announces their open carry events and has for years. My feeling is that the MBPD, under Oates, was asked to go heavy on the event even though they were aware of it and what the statutes say. This wasn’t Florida Carry’s first event.
Oates was appointed Chief under Phil Levine, former mayor of Miami Beach. Levine is a democrat, running for FL governor, hardline gun controller and hates the state preemption laws. This might have been political grandstanding on Levine’s part that could have gotten innocent people killed and will most likely see lawsuits filed.
On June 27, 2018 at 2:42 pm, moe mensale said:
“Florida should pass an open carry law for all citizens and not just those who are hunting or fishing.”
@Liberty4Ever,
It’s not for lack of trying over the past decade or two. Most of the FL sheriff’s and police chiefs are adamantly opposed to it. As is the Chamber of Commerce and The Mouse (Disney). And of late, many of the attempts have been thwarted by turncoat republicans.
On June 27, 2018 at 2:48 pm, moe mensale said:
@The Walkin’ Dude,
Most of your comment was the stupidest thing I’ve seen posted publicly in years.
On June 27, 2018 at 2:49 pm, mikrat said:
Stop Asking For Permission!
“The claim and exercise of a constitutional Right cannot be converted into a crime.”
Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. 486, 489
“There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of this exercise of constitutional Rights.”
Snerer vs. Cullen, 481 F. 946
“With regard particularly to the U.S. Constitution, it is elementary that a Right secured or protected by that document cannot be overthrown or impaired by any state police authority.”
Connolly vs. Union Sewer Pipe Co., 184 US 540;
Lafarier vs. Grand Trunk R.R. Co., 24 A. 848;
O’Neil vs. Providence Amusement Co., 108 A. 887
“The police power of the state must be exercised in subordination to the provisions of the U.S. Constitution.” [emphasis added]
Panhandle Eastern Pipeline Co. vs. State Highway Commission, 294 US 613;
Bacahanan vs. Wanley, 245 US 60
“It is well settled that the Constitutional Rights protected from invasion by the police power, include Rights safeguarded both by express and implied prohibitions in the Constitutions.”
Tiche vs. Osborne, 131 A. 60
“As a rule, fundamental limitations of regulations under the police power are found in the spirit of the Constitutions, not in the letter, although they are just as efficient as if expressed in the clearest language.”
Mehlos vs. Milwaukee, 146 NW 882
“Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule making or legislation which would abrogate them.”
Miranda vs. Arizona, 384 US 436, 491
“The state cannot diminish Rights of the people.” Hurtado vs. California, 110 US 516
“Disobedience or evasion of a Constitutional Mandate cannot be tolerated, even though such disobedience may, at least temporarily, promote in some respects the best interests of the public.”
Slote vs. Examination, 112 ALR 660
“Economic necessity cannot justify a disregard of Constitutional guarantee.”
Riley vs. Carter, 79 ALR 1018; 16 Am.Jur. (2nd), Const. Law, Sect.81
“Constitutional Rights cannot be denied simply because of hostility to their assertions and exercise; vindication of conceded Constitutional Rights cannot be made dependent upon any theory that it is less expensive to deny them than to afford them.”
Watson vs. Memphis, 375 US 526
“No public policy of a state can be allowed to override the positive guarantees of the U.S. Constitution.”
16 Am.Jur. (2nd), Const. Law, Sect.70
A Citizen cannot be forced to give up his/her Rights in the name of regulation.
Riley vs. Laeson, 142 So. 619;
Stephenson vs. Binford, supra.
On June 27, 2018 at 3:00 pm, moe mensale said:
“It’s not for lack of trying over the past decade or two.”
Should add that the NRA and the USF have also opposed open carry.
On June 27, 2018 at 3:37 pm, Matt said:
The joke here is on the taxpayer who will foot the bill for the lawsuit sure to follow. The policemen are not lawyers, and we’re the men fishing with guns? Or did they have fishing poles? They would have to be a good shot to get em in the head (the fish)!
On June 27, 2018 at 3:59 pm, Herschel Smith said:
@Matt,
The point here is that those same (silly) questions could have been asked about a concealed carrier, but no one does, no one considers it stupid to conceal at any time, anywhere, and yet you did ask those questions, and neither did anyone else.
No one has a right to tell a man how to carry his firearms, any more than what car to drive.
On June 27, 2018 at 5:17 pm, Longbow said:
That “Vast Majority” strikes again!
On June 27, 2018 at 5:24 pm, Cricket said:
Today’s policemen are not very bright. Believe you me I know. Some of them take the job as a POWER trip. Yeah, not kidding.
To be a police officer or a politcian you need serious recommendations by trusted and good people as well as a limited psycho test, though, I don’t believe in psychology. But every little bit helps.
On June 27, 2018 at 6:29 pm, Lyle said:
“I say AGAIN:
There are no good cops.”
I was out shooting with some friends doing some chronograph work, in the North Idaho hills, when a sheriff’s deputy ambled into our space in his 4 x 4. He calmly got out, walked up to me and asked how it was going. It turned out he was interested in our ARs, because he was interested in getting one for himself “…while I still can”, as he put it.
We talked a little bit about shooting, AR configurations, 5.56mm reloading and ballistics and then he left, thanking us for our time, never asking us for our IDs or any of that sort of nonsense.
I’d say that was probably a pretty good cop. He certainly acquitted himself well in that encounter anyway.
On the other hand I have a story or two about Moscow, ID city cops that aren’t nearly so good. But city cops are hired by politicians, who in turn are elected by city residents, who in this case include more leftist, radical gimmie-gimmie university types, whereas a sheriff is elected directly by the county at large, which is far more libertarian in nature, and he sets the tone for the department.
Therefore, city cops, in general, will tend to be dumber, more leftist/authoritarian, and more paranoid, will fewer social skills.
On June 27, 2018 at 8:12 pm, DAN III said:
Lyle,
Your “good cop” is part of a voluntary system that both perpetrates and perpetuates injustices against the citizenry. Cops, LEOs, badged thugs as I prefer to call them, have but one purpose….to enforce the law. Enforce the law no matter how unjust or tyrannical it is. As I have stated before….
There are no good cops.
On June 27, 2018 at 8:21 pm, DAN III said:
Moe (Is that the one with the soup bowl haircut? ) @ 1448,
“….your comment was the stupidest thing I’ve seen posted….in years.”
Really ? I guess you don’t consider any of your enlightened remarks to be in competition for “Stupidest Thing Posted” award, eh ?
On June 27, 2018 at 8:33 pm, Jim said:
Find the name of the cops, track them down at their homes and you know the rest……..
On June 27, 2018 at 9:21 pm, Dave said:
Hum … almost shot for behaving legally! The only ones who needed watching on that peer were the ones with no concept of the bill of rights, inalienable rights, the natural right for self protection! These “police” would likely pull the trigger for a simple nose twitch. Who’s scary!
On June 28, 2018 at 7:07 am, moe mensale said:
“…and we’re the men fishing with guns? Or did they have fishing poles? They would have to be a good shot to get em in the head (the fish)!”
@Matt,
The statute specifically states “…engaged in fishing…or going to or returning from a fishing…expedition.” Florida Carry’s flyers state to bring your fishing gear and fishing license (if appropriate). The law is specific and so is Florida Carry’s response.
On June 28, 2018 at 7:09 am, moe mensale said:
@Dan3,
Don’t worry your little mind too much. I would have called it a stupid post even if YOU had made it.
On June 28, 2018 at 7:16 am, moe mensale said:
“Find the name of the cops, track them down at their homes and you know the rest……..”
@Jim,
No, we don’t know the rest. Why don’t you enlighten us? Are you publicly calling for the killing of certain individuals? The destruction of their homes? The murder of their pets? Picketing in front of their homes? What?
I take it back. @Jim wins the prize for stupidest publicly posted comment of the year and it’s only June.
On June 28, 2018 at 2:30 pm, DAN III said:
Moe (the one with the soup bowl haircut) @ 0716,
I cannot help but to laugh at the ignorance of those (yourself) who call others stupid, while exhibiting your own ignorance. “Stupidest” is not a legitimate word.
The comparative form of stupid is “more stupid” and the superlative form is “most stupid”. Basically, words that end in “id” use “more” and “most”. Not “er” and “est”.
Seems to me you should award yourself your vaunted “prize for stupidest publicly posted comment of the year”. You have certainly earned it.
Be careful calling others out when you yourself are the halfwit.
On June 28, 2018 at 2:57 pm, Herschel Smith said:
@Moe @ Dan,
Please refrain in the future from addressing each other, or in other words, the argument you’re having with each other doesn’t add to what’s going on in these threads.
I want to be kind in how I handle valued readers, but I’ve yet to see any redeeming value in the insults you two are hurling at each other.
I don’t know who started this or who is continuing it, but let’s play nice with each other. We’ve got too many enemy *out there* to be focused on internecine warfare.
Please.
Thanks.
On June 28, 2018 at 4:36 pm, DAN III said:
Mr. Smith,
You are correct. Will comply.
On June 28, 2018 at 4:57 pm, Jaque said:
Former Miami Beach Mayor and Floridas 2018 Gubernatorial candidate Phillip Levine is a Communist who has promised to ban “ Assault Rifles.” That means any magazine fed semi-auto is contraband. He will likely use California or New York as his model for Florida Gun laws. And standard capacity magazines will be banned too. Pistols mags above 10rnds. Banned. From coast to coast our gun rights are only one election away from being lost. Who would have believed we would live in an America where half the people want open borders and legalized dope but want a natural right of arms ownership to be taken away. The same rats also believe that communism is preferable. That by itself is sufficient warning that our future will likely include an aggressive and violent communist uprising.
I have no doubt the cops on the pier knew the law quite well. So did the Police Chief. The police action was harassment. And the MBPD moron who drew his weapon needs an ass reaming and demotion to beach janitor. I would like to see the body cam footage of the event to see what was so threatening for police guns to be drawn.
No doubt Levine’s Mayorial successor and Miami Beach police department command staff would like all civilians disarmed also. Its the communist way.
http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/former-miami-beach-mayor-phil-levine-promises-to-ban-assault-rifles-as-governor-10108280
On June 29, 2018 at 12:44 pm, Donk said:
I had an interesting conversation with a DOJ/DEA Prosecuter of whom recently met at a restaurant. She hated the IRS even though I pointed out that it was at least her team’s A/R department if not payroll. She just did not get the connection. She also denied widespread abuse of asset forfeiture existed even though I told her I knew several local NC and SC county sherriff’s deputies that bragged about funding a part of their department budgets with same. I told her I traveled extensively by car and always carried a couple thousand $$s in cash for emergencies. She stated all I needed to do was tell the nice officer why I had the money and he would happily let me be on my way. The final straw that made her pay her bill and hastily leave was when I said cops were no longer peace officers but law ENFORCEMENT officers operating as an extension of the Dept of Revenue. Talk about cognitive dissonance and normalcy bias.
On June 29, 2018 at 12:51 pm, Herschel Smith said:
@Donk,
You had dinner with this woman? Ugh. I hope it didn’t ruin the steak that night.
On June 29, 2018 at 1:57 pm, moe mensale said:
@Herschel,
Understood.
On July 1, 2018 at 9:02 am, Frank said:
Two words: Lawsuit, money.