Judicial Watch Sues The ATF For Obama-Era Records On Attempts To Ban M855 Ammunition
BY Herschel Smith
6 years, 1 month ago
Judicial Watch announced today that it filed a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) lawsuit against the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF), a component of the Department of Justice, for 1,900 pages of records about a proposed reclassification that would effectively ban certain types of AR-15 ammunition as armor-piercing (Judicial Watch v. U.S. Department of Justice (No. 1:18-cv-02218)).
Judicial Watch filed the lawsuit after the agency failed to respond to a May 14, 2018, FOIA request for the 1,900 documents about the Obama administration’s AR-15 ammo ban efforts. The documents include ATF talking points about the “Armor Piercing Ammunition Notice of Proposed Rulemaking” and other records discussing ammunition classification.
The lawsuit is the latest development in Judicial Watch’s more than three-year effort to obtain documents from the ATF. Judicial Watch discovered the document cache in separate litigation on the ammo ban issue.
In March 2015, more than 200 members of Congress wrote to former ATF Director B. Todd Jones to express their “serious concern” that the proposal to reclassify the ammunition types as armor-piercing may violate the Second Amendment by restricting ammunition that had been primarily used for “sporting purposes.” The ATF’s move “does not comport with the letter or spirit of the law and will interfere with Second Amendment rights by disrupting the market for ammunition that law abiding Americans use for sporting and other legitimate purposes,” the letter said. The ATF subsequently halted its efforts.
The precise statutory definition of armor-piercing ammunition can be found in 18 U.S.C. §921(a)(17).
“Simply put, the ATF refuses to comply with federal open records law,” Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton said. “The ATF has withheld records for over three years concerning the Obama administration’s shady attempt to institute gun control by restricting ammunition instead of guns.”
To begin with, civilians should have access to everything the military has, including armor-piercing ammunition, under our second amendment rights and duties.
Second, M855 (“Green Tip”) is not armor piercing ammunition. That’s enough said. If I have to say any more about that, I may as well try to teach calculus to my dog – I’ll probably have more success and I’m sure a more receptive audience.
Tom Fitton and Judicial Watch is doing Yeoman’s work on just about everything imaginable. I’m on their email list and see what they’re engaged in, and I simply can’t link it all, and I certainly can’t intelligently comment on it all. If you’re not on their distribution, you need to get on it right of way.
As I said before, most of the ATF employees were there under Holder and at least complicit in the abuse of American citizens. That’s who they are, it’s the way they think. Tom had to push this hard for success because what’s in the collection of documents is embarrassing to the ATF. You can count on it.
And also as I’ve said before, for me (who cannot afford to file a lawsuit every time I turn around), the FOIA is essentially worthless. The FedGov has ignored virtually every one of my requests (I’ve had success only once). The power of the purse is what the Congress has over the heads of the bureaucratic tyrants. They won’t use it. Thus there is no check on their power.
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On October 8, 2018 at 7:27 am, Mark Matis said:
I have no doubt that BATFE will admit the error of their ways, and will promptly turn over the appropriate records, and will further go after those who illegally copied FFL records and turned them into a database.
By the way, why do you cater to their pretense of being a “three letter agency”??? They are the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives. BATFE. And that sure ain’t three letters.
But then the REAL three letter agencies have repeatedly shown themselves to be putridly corrupt to their very core. FBI. DoJ. CIA. NSA. Nothing but filthy lying maggot swill. And on that front, BATFE sure fits right in.
On October 8, 2018 at 9:24 am, Herschel Smith said:
By the way, why do you cater to their pretense of being a “three letter agency”??? ”
Seriously? Who are you talking to? Look at the post tag, which says BATFE. If I use ATF it’s for shorthand because I’m time limited.
I don’t care what they’re called. It makes no difference to me – they are the same statists regardless of what acronym one applies.
I’m not the enemy, Mark. Turn your guns on the enemy. Internecine sniping and warfare is one reason we’re losing.
I don’t invest this kind of time to have guys take shots at me rather than the FedGov.
On October 8, 2018 at 12:31 pm, BRVTVS said:
Isn’t it amazing that this story seems to have been erased from America’s collective consciousness: https://youtu.be/0NqcZXVw8Ks
On October 8, 2018 at 12:32 pm, BRVTVS said:
More supporting info: http://articles.latimes.com/1995-07-22/news/mn-26688_1_atf-agents
On October 8, 2018 at 4:11 pm, Pat Hines said:
They used to be, or still are, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, Arson, and Explosives. They hated that more, it being BATFAE, or Bat Fay.
@Herschel
I don’t know if you remember the old conflict about armor piercing ammo, or not. Initially, AP ammo limits applied only to handguns. Of course, idiots at Thompson-Center and one other single shot pistol maker, immediately chambered their break action pistols in .308 and other rifle cartridges which the BATFAE then qualified as handgun ammo and blocked the sale of AP ammo in those calibers. For a while, those owning large amounts of AP ammo broke the rounds down and sold the AP bullets and the brass separately. That ran out as far as I know, Clinton issued Executive orders forbidding the US government selling any surplus AP ammo.
The latest BATFAE edit was to prohibit Barnes Bullets selling their copper alloy Spitzer solids, declaring them to be loaded AP ammo.
As you’ve stated, the BATFAE has NO authority to do any of these actions, it’s forbidden by the Second Amendment and the precedent set by https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/460/575.html
The above case says that restrictions or special taxes upon supplies used to exercise a right are unconstitutional.
On October 8, 2018 at 6:16 pm, Mark Matis said:
Sorry. I was merely pointing to the head. And recognizing that in spite of their pretense, they actually have MUCH in common with the REAL “three letter” agencies. Regardless of whether it is those I mentioned, or their foreign friends MI6 and BND. After all, there are no laws against those agencies spying on US citizens. And the same for the other Five Eyes sewage in Australia, New Zealand, and Canada. So what actually goes on is the NSA and CIA provide facility space and equipment for their good buddies, who then do the internal US surveillance that would be illegal if done by the CIA or the NSA or the FBI or the BATFE.