Benchmade Answers Their Critics
BY Herschel Smith
5 years, 10 months ago
Recoil has the interview. Here are some excerpts of it, with running commentary by me.
RECOIL: Before we get into the interview, is there anything that you would like to say to the RECOIL readership and the Second Amendment community about a Benchmade employee cutting up firearms with Benchmade equipment?
MATT ELLIOTT: Yeah sure, I think the story, and the consistent story here is that while this particular event is as it’s come to light for all of us is we’ve realized it’s something that people take high amounts of offense to, especially from the symbolism of it.
In fact, especially with that post going out with no real context behind it, I can understand the strong reaction from the market on it. The fact of the matter is that we’ve supported law enforcement, people’s right to carry, be it knives or guns, and the Second Amendment.
We also have supported military from the beginning of the company until now, none of that’s going to change moving forward. We’re still going to work with law enforcement; we’re still going to support our local police department, the Oregon City PD. I also want people that know that moving forward we will not be engaging in helping the police with those activities [cutting firearms], especially now understanding the way that people feel about it.
What does it mean to support law enforcement, people’s right to carry, and the military? What does any of that have to do with the situation? So far, this isn’t helpful.
R: There have been two main topics that have been the focus of comments on RECOIL’s original coverage of the incident. The conversation has become centered around political contributions, which we can get into in a bit, but more so the commitment of Benchmade to the Second Amendment and the Second Amendment community, which we imagine makes up a large part of your customer base. Can you share Benchmade’s stance on Second Amendment issues clearly for our readers?
ME: Benchmade from the beginning has been fully in support of Second Amendment rights. That’s not just a Benchmade thing as a brand; it’s a cultural thing as an organization. I can’t speak to every single person in the business but I myself, I’m a big supporter. I happen to be a life member of the NRA. I’m not alone in that at Benchmade, and moreover, I also think it’s important to make the point that it’s about carry for us and people’s right to carry state to state. And that isn’t just about guns for us. At the end of the day, we’re a knife company.
I think it’s important for us to be authentically who we are, and we’re a knife manufacturer. Now we are also the knife manufacturer that has really spearheaded and led the charge for as long as I’ve been working here, which is more than a decade. Long before that with the manufacturer of automatic knives and helping to break down doors around antiquated or outdated legislation that has been very restrictive.
When I started at Benchmade, I believe there were really only three states that allowed for carry of automatic [knives], and to date, that number has grown to 30 plus. I can’t speak to the exact numbers because I’m not an expert on the laws in every state. I’ve watched that number grow and grow primarily over the course of the last five to six years right.
Okay, I grok that they’re a knife company rather than a gun company. But in the end as customers we’re interested in a full-orbed view of the second amendment and aren’t interested in companies that don’t protect those rights. Why are they so surprised at the reaction they got?
R: Can you expand on how Benchmade supports organizations like the NRA?
ME: We have been members of organizations, the NRA included, for decades and are very proud of that fact. We will continue to support their efforts to support gun owners rights and the Second Amendment. We participate in programs that give discounts to members of these organization along with our long-running history of financial support, along with the other actions we have taken through our direct relationships with them and the community.
The NRA is the largest, most well-connected, well-funded gun control organization on the planet. It doesn’t help their case to invoke support for the NRA. This is getting worse as the interview proceeds.
R: Can you explain the political contributions listed on OpenSecrets.org that have been circulating social media?
ME: Oregon is a hotbed of knife makers, but also is a heavily Democrat-leaning state making most of the politicians with an interest in introducing legislation that is pro-knife often Democratic. When the donations were made to pro-knife politicians, it was about knife rights.
Gun owners are protected when traveling through states by the Firearm Owners Protection act; knife owners don’t enjoy that kind of protection. The Interstate Transport Act was a very important piece of legislation that Benchmade has been working to get passed for over five years, alongside the American Knife and Tool Institute.
This bill had co-sponsors from both sides of the aisle. The effort requires bi-partisan support and we need to ensure we are reaching across the aisle and bringing both parties to the table. I don’t think most people are aware of how serious the penalties can be for certain types of knives in certain states …
I’m sorry, but I’m left unpersuaded. I cannot for the life of me see that any of the democratic politicians to whom they donated are “pro-knife.”
R: Was this the first time that the Oregon City Police Department has asked Benchmade for this type of assistance?
ME: No, they have asked Benchmade two or three times a year over the last few years to assist them in cutting the firearms to be destroyed according to their policy to the correct size for the special destruction box. Since Benchmade has assisted law enforcement since day one, we agreed to render assistance in the past.
In other words, they’ve cut up firearms for the cops in the past, lots of them in fact.
R: What will be the answer to the Oregon City Police Department if they ask Benchmade to assist in cutting firearms into smaller pieces that fit inside of an incineration box?
ME: Benchmade now has a policy to politely decline to assist Law Enforcement in the cutting up of firearms regardless of reason. If the local law enforcement request assistance with other matters, we will be happy to accommodate them as long as doesn’t involve cutting firearms.
That should have been your policy all along.
R: Was it known that the police department was taking photos of the firearms being cut up by a Benchmade employee?
ME: The police department was given permission to take the photos even though the Benchmade policy is that there is no photographs allowed in the facility. We have launched an investigation internally to ensure that this type of incident never happens again.
In other words, you regret that you got caught.
R: Does Benchmade have any thoughts about the internal OCPD policy that mandated that firearms which were unable to be returned to their owner for whatever reason, be it legal or otherwise?
ME: Since OCPD’s post went viral we have conducted an investigation into the entire event. We are hoping this can be an opportunity to have a more open discussion about the intricacies of such an important subject. We have learned a lot and as I said earlier, we will not be allowing this practice to happen in our facilities again.
Here is a brief rundown of those “intricacies.” The politicians to whom you donated are communists. Only communists cut up firearms. Those firearms could have been sold to good, peaceable men and women to protect their hearth and home at a reduced cost, thereby rendering aid to those less wealthy than someone who can purchase the firearms new. If you can’t change the laws where you live, the least you can do is not willingly cooperate in the communism they want to foist on the rest of us.
Note to Benchmade. You did yourselves no favors with this interview.
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On February 24, 2019 at 9:55 pm, Dan said:
Benchmade…..like politicians, has forgotten a fundamental reality.
Actions speak louder than words. They chose. They chose to
support the lefts anti freedom agenda. They deserve to suffer the
consequences of that choice. If that means they go bankrupt and
shut down due to loss of business then so be it.
On February 24, 2019 at 10:48 pm, George said:
In the vast majority of jurisdictions in this country today, supporting the police is, in fact, the opposite of supporting the right to keep and bear arms or the right of self defense in general.
On February 24, 2019 at 11:41 pm, Blake said:
I would be willing to give Benchmade the benefit of a doubt, except, they admit they’ve helped cut up guns, more than once, and they donate almost exclusively to Democrat politicians.
So, to echo what our host said, Benchmade did themselves no favors with this interview.
On February 25, 2019 at 2:04 am, Longbow said:
“…especially now understanding the way that people feel about it.”
What the fucking fuck? Just Now?
On February 25, 2019 at 5:22 am, Roger J said:
Why don’t Benchmade and Gerber and Leupold simply MOVE to a pro-2A state? Magpul did. Idaho borders Oregon and people there would love to have a gun or knife company. For that matter, so would we in South Carolina.
On February 25, 2019 at 9:23 am, ragman said:
I have a couple. Will break em and return for warranty repairs. No more tolerance for companies like this. Read yesterday that the list of companies that refuse to do bidness with communist state government is growing exponentially.
On February 25, 2019 at 10:52 am, Fred said:
“…we’ve supported law enforcement, people’s right to carry, be it knives or guns…Benchmade from the beginning has been fully in support of Second Amendment rights…We have been members of organizations, the NRA included, for decades and are very proud of that fact.”
Choose this day who you will serve; the Holy creator of the universe God Almighty through His son Christ Jesus with ALL of His Duties given to men and those subsequent Natural Rights, or, the Holy Washington Empire including it’s World Police Military, and it’s affiliate Police States, and fundraising apparatus of the NRA.
You cannot serve two masters.
On February 25, 2019 at 1:51 pm, Ned said:
Benchmade needs a marketing arrangement with Dick’s Sporting goods.
On February 25, 2019 at 4:24 pm, Ned2 said:
Playing both sides of the aisle for political reasons is no excuse.
They deserve to be bankrupted with extreme prejudice.
On February 25, 2019 at 8:33 pm, Conrad said:
What a Corporation does with their profit is really nobody’s business. The issue is first the quality of their product, then customer support and continuing improvement. If they were going to cut up guns it really does boil down to the principle of the thing. You have to remember that the area they do bidness in is incestuous, ingrown, and back woods. I’d bet they didn’t want the local Cops thinking they weren’t team players. That this came to light probably did them a favor, they can back out of it for the controversy and optics. The Law that keeps these guns from being re-sold is corrupt and energy should be going into changing that…. but the times have been set on fire by dRATS, come on, the State is a looney bin, a mess run by a murdering lesbian and stoned special interest groups. Remember, Portland is the town that emptied an entire reservoir because some drunk kid pissed in it. I’d wait now to see how Benchmade plays their cards.
On February 25, 2019 at 8:53 pm, Jeffersonian said:
I would observe that it is not possible to support both law enforcement and people’s right to carry at the same time.
On February 25, 2019 at 9:36 pm, Herschel Smith said:
@Conrad,
“What a Corporation does with their profit is really nobody’s business.”
It is if I choose to make it mine. I’m the customer, and I can decide to spend my money where I wish.
On February 26, 2019 at 4:39 pm, moe mensale said:
“No, they have asked Benchmade two or three times a year over the last few years to assist them in cutting the firearms to be destroyed according to their policy to the correct size for the special destruction box.”
Benchmade should understand OR gun laws far better than they do. The state doesn’t mandate that unwanted or confiscated firearms be destroyed. There is the option of selling them to licensed dealers. The “policy” Benchmade is helping out is the OCPD’s chief’s personal anti-gun policy of destroying these firearms.
On February 26, 2019 at 4:40 pm, Ned said:
Actually, Conrad, right or wrong, contributions to political campaigns are reported, and thus subject to scrutiny.
It’s becoming more and more important to me to know if I’m funding the enemy, and I appreciate everyone helping to bring that funding knowledge to my attention. YMMV.
On February 26, 2019 at 4:54 pm, Jack Crabb said:
“Note to Benchmade. You did yourselves no favors with this interview.”
You got that right, Cap’n. This idiot, Matt Elliott, is the Director of Marketing? All he did was talk a bunch of gobbledygook. What a maroon.
Benchmark is off the list and will not be returning.
On February 26, 2019 at 7:02 pm, Conrad said:
No Hershel and Ned,
I am a business owner, have been for more than 30 years. My obligation to you is skillful craftsmanship and honest dealings. When you pay for services you got what you paid for. I pay my bills, then myself, and a percentage of the profit is given to the cause I choose, for my reasons. The giving has the same integrity as the work, it’s none of your business. It is why I resist all pleas to “give back” or “help out”, and I do not give gifts to garnish influence.
If you don’t like that, then I would encourage you (for my line of work) to butt out and go elsewhere where Nannies are needed.
On February 26, 2019 at 8:40 pm, Herschel Smith said:
@Conrad,
You’re making an emotional statement. You’re stating how you wish things were, not how things really are.
You don’t want customers to care about how your company spends its money, and I grok that you don’t want to pour money back into the community. That isn’t the role you choose for your company.
But we do care that a company contributes to the forces of anti-2A. We can’t help but care, just as much as we care about how our government spends our money. Thus, for example, I care that my tax money goes to kill innocent children.
Again, you’re explaining how you wish things would be, not how they are. You’re not giving a statement of fact, but wish.
I think if you ponder this a bit, I’ll persuade you.
On February 27, 2019 at 1:18 pm, Conrad said:
Hersh,
my position is reality.
It is right to care how “our money” is spent when it is “we the people” who are required to contribute to the ‘greater good’, but that is different than a Constitutional right. The Constitution is our Covenant with Government and good laws; if somebody actively gives in a political way to subvert that Covenant then there should be questions as to why. Just being a Liberal supporting Liberal causes is not enough.
The words in your reply like “emotion”, “wish”, “not care”, “don’t want”, “pour”, “care”, etc are in themselves emotional arm twisting to cause conformity, and they arrive at conclusions before all the facts are known.
The greatest danger in applying litmus tests and ridged rules of rightness to conduct is to become the Christian Taliban. Please avoid that, show me a proper integration of truth.
On February 27, 2019 at 2:00 pm, Fred said:
I’ve been following this back and forth with amusement. Yes, Herschel, please show us an ‘integration of truth.’ Did God really say not to eat of the tree in the center of the Garden? Surely you will not die by sprinkling in a little truthiness. Does the sixth commandment really say “Thou shalt not kill.”? Does the word of God really say that the systematic subversion of the LORD’s holy laws by any means including ignorance is not justified? Does the covenant among men and God, to which the 2A is a part, really say the punishment for treason is death or does it say ‘tough questions’? Are we really to point out our brothers apostasy or are we to live and let live? Can’t we just hang out with the devil all get along? Must every knee really bow? Do tell?
On February 27, 2019 at 2:11 pm, Herschel Smith said:
@Conrad,
Your position isn’t “reality.” It’s wishful thinking. I can prove it.
You want folks not to care about how companies spend their profits. Folks actually do care about how companies spend their profits, witness the many readers here. Ergo, you’re wrong and I’m right.
There. That was easy and brief.
On February 27, 2019 at 4:14 pm, Conrad said:
You have proved my point.
The topic itself has caused a division of thought, a taking of sides.
Craftsmanship is about work, and excellence. When it is done you depart with the blessing of unanimity of thought, and purpose: a job well done. You have made it about something other. It is why I never discuss politics or religion on the job. Fault that if you may but such things cause customers to take mental sides, and I am there to provide a service and get paid.
Let’s look into your life shall we? I’m sure there is much there we would disapprove of. We’ll start with your Kahr PM9, I doubt you shoot a .45.
On February 27, 2019 at 6:46 pm, Herschel Smith said:
@Conrad,
No, I haven’t proven anything except my own point. Your point was that companies can spend their money as they wish and not suffer the due ramifications. When you began to lose the argument, you do what night time talk show hosts do. You changed the subject to guns.
So this was your proposition:
‘A’ is false, and ‘not-A’ has positive truth value.
I pointed out that ‘A’ has occurred many times, most recently with Benchmade, and witness my own readers’ reaction. Thus, ‘A’ is true. Since you asserted that ‘A’ was not reality and I asserted that it has occurred many times, you are wrong.
Thus I won the argument. I followed the rules of logic strictly, you didn’t.
The argument wasn’t what you or I wish, but what is. Whether I or anyone else is divisive is a change of subject, not the original proposition you proffered.
Instead, you reacted like a little school girl who wants to throw her purse around. You’re now banned from further comments since you don’t want to have serious conversations.