Juan William And Jesse Watters Clash Over Venezuela And Guns On ‘The Five’
BY Herschel Smith
5 years, 7 months ago
“Do you think if those people had guns there would be anything but more chaos, more violence and more death?” Williams asked. “Let me ask you, New York City, you think if you have a gun you could stand up to the New York City Police Department, much less the state National Guard or the U.S. military?
“I think if the American people are armed to the teeth,” Watters responded.
“Get them more guns!” Wiliams said in disbelief.
I don’t watch television, so when something like this little debate happens I have to read about it or I don’t know it existed.
This is instructive, yes? Juan is arguing that the citizens should be willing to accept the chaos and death that is occurring now in Venezuela – from APCs running over people, to starvation, to death and disease from overcrowded medical facilities, to heat stroke because of no electricity, to extreme poverty because of the corruption of socialism – just in order to prevent even more problems.
Or in other words, there is never any justification for stopping governmental abuse, governmental corruption, or death by government (which in the twentieth century alone totaled 170 million souls). This is a remarkable defense, but you should always remember that this is the way progressives think. They never have your best interest at heart – it’s always some perceived betterment of a social engineering construct as determined by the central planners, even if the central planners are murderers.
Now, one more time, let’s dispense with this mythos that an insurgency cannot tangle with a uniformed army. Juan (as most people who offer up this objection) has an overblown view of what a uniformed army can accomplish.
There simply aren’t that many infantry battalions in the armed forces. A full 80% of enlisted and commissioned people are logistics, intel, transport, maintenance, engineering, and administration. Furthermore, we’ve seen what an insurgency can do to a uniformed armed forces in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Although we’ve been through this before many times, let’s do it again. The MultiNational Force reported years ago at the very height of the insurgency in Iraq that the total number of foreign fighters (the main ones doing the nefarious work) never exceeded approximately 20,000. Ponder: 20,000 poorly trained and poorly equipped and supplied insurgents fought the entire U.S. military to a virtual standstill in Iraq.
Ultimately, areas of Iraq were pacified, but it came at a tremendous cost, with saturation of Marines in Fallujah in 2007, and other tactics employed that aren’t long term, serving only for temporary pacification because we decided not to stay and work the politics for the purposes of U.S. interests. Similar results were achieved in the Malayan emergency by the British forces, but it involved brutal tactics and saturation of troops, and was only temporary.
A counterinsurgency is extremely difficult even with a very small insurgency. An insurgency isn’t about great armies lining up in fields of battle and walking towards each other while shooting. Insurgent and government live in the same neighborhoods, beside each other, wear the same uniforms, go to the same schools, work the same jobs, and walk the same streets. In such conditions, it’s impossible to tell insurgent from government. Juan has watched too many movies about old style warfare.
Talking heads and pundits still don’t understand what 4GW would involve, nor how difficult it would be to stop. The U.S. armed forces now focuses on 5GW (F35, Milstar uplinks to do everything, etc.) because they never figured out how to win 4GW and believe they’ll never be in one again.
Finally, isn’t it ironic that the very pundits who purvey this crap are the ones who wouldn’t propose allowing citizens to have fully automatic weapons (what do you think Juan would say about repealing the Hughes amendment?), but do want the police and military to have such weapons? That shows they haven’t come to terms with their own arguments. They don’t really even believe what’s coming out of their own mouths.
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On May 2, 2019 at 9:18 pm, Jeffersonian said:
Not the first time we’ve seen this position from the enemy.
https://gunfreezone.net/arbeit-macht-frei-casino-resort-brought-to-you-by-csgv/
On May 2, 2019 at 9:22 pm, Jeffersonian said:
I’m also reminded that seventeen-odd years ago, when I first started looking into Project Appleseed, some of the practice targets portrayed just such armored vehicles and their weak points. They’ve toned it down since then, but the quality of instruction is the same:
https://appleseedinfo.org/
On May 2, 2019 at 9:41 pm, Donk said:
My uncle was Tiger Force in Vietnam. Told me all kinds of horrible stories to ease his conscious. But he said what they feared were the folks they interacted with in the day time: shoe shine boys, ladies who did their laundry, vendors they bought snacks and sodas from, etc., etc. The local folks owned the night and wreaked their havoc then. Eyes and ears all around. He is still touched in the head re his night patrols and stuffing his buddies guts back into their body cavity and holding brains in a half whacked skull as a medic. Just sayin
On May 2, 2019 at 11:12 pm, BRVTVS said:
@Donk
This Vietnam vet says much the same: https://youtu.be/tixOyiR8B-8
On May 3, 2019 at 3:15 am, Nosmo said:
It’s been hashed and rehashed to death so I won’t, but Mr. Williams appears to not understand that it will only rarely be “random insurgent directly vs uniformed government agent.”
I suspect he also suffers from some degree of ignorance regarding susceptibility of powered equipment to being compromised, for multiple values of “compromised.”
On May 3, 2019 at 6:01 am, Carl B. said:
Williams has the IQ of watermelon.
On May 3, 2019 at 7:13 am, ragman said:
Williams is at best a waste of oxygen but is most likely a useful idiot as outlined by Comrade Ulyanov(Lenin).
On May 3, 2019 at 7:54 am, Heywood said:
“They don’t really even believe what’s coming out of their own mouths.”
Correct. They also never take the time, nor do they possess the intellectual curiosity to take the next step and explore what happens next. Myopic and idiotic.
On May 3, 2019 at 8:37 am, Fred said:
This reminded me of some thoughts I’ve had on Teeth to Tail ratios of not only the US military but of teams of patriots. I’ve seen a mentality that has bothered me for years but I haven’t really discussed it much online because there is no private place. Much of this mentality discounts the required Tail to conduct an insurgency. It’s not just about survival. Uncle sugar is not coming with truck loads of everything you need. You need your own…everything…and networks to make it happen. I would not pre-build the networks, they will become apparent but you must be prepared to be open to any number of the must unlikely scenarios and sources. I haven’t studied much what’s written about how insurgencies: 1 sustain themselves, 2 network, and 3 therefor continue to bring the fight. Much work needs to be done in this area, some teams are getting it though. Hint, it’s not prepping as much as networks.
And, definitely go after their Tail, all of it, all day and all night. The Law of God and of Defense and Defense of Nations is NOT the law of Geneva, Oslo, and Nuremberg. There are no off-limits among the self declared enemies of liberty, as apparent in Revealed Law and Natural Law. There are a 1000 ways to kill a commie, there are no types, means, and weapons that off limits either. If you’re planning on fighting under the rules offered during your primary training then you are a fool, as the Bible would say.
Yuan and his pals don’t have the first clue as to what happens to the self declared tyrant in such a case.
And since I’m already invited to the camps (I won’t be going), I might well say that Booth did not assassinate or commit a crime. He attacked a legitimate military target as evidenced by the Reconstruction, where the war was continued against the peoples of self-determination even after an honorable surrender. Don’t let this happen again, EVER. Don’t honor an agreement that your enemy does not. The commies will never stop, EVER, never believe a word they say.
On May 4, 2019 at 2:14 am, DAN III said:
ALCON,
Isn’t it time to cease playing word games ? The Left has used “acceptable” wording to mask themselves as they actually are.
Those one chooses to term as “progressives” is complying with the masquerade of the Left. Time to call a spade a spade and cease being touchy-feely.
Progressive = Communist.
ERWACHE
On May 4, 2019 at 8:49 am, Talktome said:
Juan loves guns – in the hands of costumed government approved people. He hates liberty and cannot imagine individual citizens or groups of citizens standing up for their liberty. Raised cradle to grave with “government will protect you and swaddle you and feed you” self determination and resistance to gov tyranny simply isn’t a thought they can entertain – it would lead to serious cognitive dissonance that might explode their mushy brains. It’s simpler to virtue signal that you are on the prog side of the argument than stand up for what is right. Logic, standards, individual liberty, independence, these are all foreign concepts to the left. When they do adopt these terms to try and appease the 80% of the country that doesn’t agree with them, they change the definitions.
On May 4, 2019 at 8:54 am, Talktome said:
On teeth to tails ratios, I was both teeth, and later tail during my years of service. Even the tail can fight, albeit not as effectively. I think the ration back then was closer to 90/10 tails to teeth. In the last unit I was in, we had over 1500 tail, and about 120 teeth.
On May 4, 2019 at 4:53 pm, Gryphon said:
In Venezuela, I rather Doubt that an “Armed Insurgency” EVEN IF it is ‘organic’ and conducted by Venezuelans, (NOT this Clowns-in-Action, Foreign Organized Coup Attempt) is going to Improve Conditions for Most People. If I were a Citizen there, I wouldn’t (for Now) be Violently Opposing the government, as it is pretty Obvious that Guido & Co. are Foreign Owned-and-Controlled “Opposition”. That’s Not to Say that Eventually, the Citizens would see a Need to Revolt, but given the propensity of Mestizo Peasants to endorse Socialism (Free $hit for all) I rather Doubt any Organic Rebellion will happen, with or without Guns.
As for the progs’ Mouthpieces in the ‘media’, they, like the (((owned))) politicians that promote Gun Bans and Confiscation, believe that they themselves Can’t (or Won’t) be Hunted like Rats if things go Kinetic. Ha. Ha. Ha.
On May 6, 2019 at 11:47 am, Georgiaboy61 said:
@ Dan III
Just remember, a communist is just an impatient progressive…