Virginia Senate Bill No. 64: Declaring Tactical Training Illegal
BY Herschel Smith
5 years ago
SENATE BILL NO. 64 Offered January 8, 2020 Prefiled November 21, 2019 A BILL to amend and reenact § 18.2-433.2 of the Code of Virginia, relating to paramilitary activities; penalty.———- Patron– Lucas ———- Referred to Committee for Courts of Justice ———- Be it enacted by the General Assembly of Virginia:1. That § 18.2-433.2 of the Code of Virginia is amended and reenacted as follows:
§ 18.2-433.2. Paramilitary activity prohibited; penalty.
A person
shall beis guilty of unlawful paramilitary activity, punishable as a Class 5 felony if he:1. Teaches or demonstrates to any other person the use, application, or making of any firearm, explosive, or incendiary device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, knowing or having reason to know or intending that such training will be employed for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder;
or2. Assembles with one or more persons for the purpose of training with, practicing with, or being instructed in the use of any firearm, explosive, or incendiary device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, intending to employ such training for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder; or
3. Assembles with one or more persons with the intent of intimidating any person or group of persons by drilling, parading, or marching with any firearm, any explosive or incendiary device, or any components or combination thereof.
2. That the provisions of this act may result in a net increase in periods of imprisonment or commitment. Pursuant to § 30-19.1:4 of the Code of Virginia, the estimated amount of the necessary appropriation cannot be determined for periods of imprisonment in state adult correctional facilities; therefore, Chapter 854 of the Acts of Assembly of 2019 requires the Virginia Criminal Sentencing Commission to assign a minimum fiscal impact of $50,000. Pursuant to § 30-19.1:4 of the Code of Virginia, the estimated amount of the necessary appropriation cannot be determined for periods of commitment to the custody of the Department of Juvenile Justice.
This is a remarkable development. One refreshing thing is that the masks have all come off now. With control of the Senate, House and Governor’s mansion, the controllers want you to know where they stand and are willing to say so out loud and in the clearest possible terms.
Leaving aside the issue of whether one could ever demonstrate intent behind either the delivery or receiving of tactical training, what they really intend is to render illegal any training that involves CQB, small unit fire and maneuver tactics, or any combination of training in long range precision shooting, discrete communications, or battle tactics, techniques and procedures. Only LEOs can have such training.
The truly remarkable thing is the stated reason: ” … intending that such training will be employed for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder.” That the American fathers did that very thing and gave us separation from King George isn’t missed on them. They don’t need more education – it’s their knowledge of history and human nature that has brought us to this point. This is essentially their way of saying that any chance of separation is now gone, given that they have the reigns of power.
It’s appropriate at this point to rehearse the views of the founders and the citizens at the time of the war of independence.
“A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined…”
– George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790“No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.”
– Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776“I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.”
– Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787“What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms.”
– Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787“The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes…. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”
– Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776“A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.” – Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785
“The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed.”
– Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824“On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed.”
– Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823“I enclose you a list of the killed, wounded, and captives of the enemy from the commencement of hostilities at Lexington in April, 1775, until November, 1777, since which there has been no event of any consequence … I think that upon the whole it has been about one half the number lost by them, in some instances more, but in others less. This difference is ascribed to our superiority in taking aim when we fire; every soldier in our army having been intimate with his gun from his infancy.”
– Thomas Jefferson, letter to Giovanni Fabbroni, June 8, 1778“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
– Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759“To disarm the people…[i]s the most effectual way to enslave them.”
– George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788“I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers.”
– George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788“Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops.”
– Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787“Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of.”
– James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788“The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country.”
– James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789“…the ultimate authority, wherever the derivative may be found, resides in the people alone…”
– James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788“Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.”
– William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783“A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… “To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them.”
– Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788“Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined…. The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun.”
– Patrick Henry, Speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 5, 1778“This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty…. The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction.”
– St. George Tucker, Blackstone’s Commentaries on the Laws of England, 1803“The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand, arms, like law, discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. The balance ofpower is the scale of peace. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside. And while a single nation refuses to lay them down, it is proper that all should keep them up. Horrid mischief would ensue were one-half the world deprived of the use of them; for while avarice and ambition have a place in the heart of man, the weak will become a prey to the strong. The history of every age and nation establishes these truths, and facts need but little arguments when they prove themselves.”
– Thomas Paine, “Thoughts on Defensive War” in Pennsylvania Magazine, July 1775“The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.”
– Samuel Adams, Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788“The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them.”
– Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, 1833“What, Sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty …. Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins.”
– Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts, I Annals of Congress 750, August 17, 1789“For it is a truth, which the experience of ages has attested, that the people are always most in danger when the means of injuring their rights are in the possession of those of whom they entertain the least suspicion.”
– Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 25, December 21, 1787“If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers, may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual state. In a single state, if the persons intrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair.”
– Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28“[I]f circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens. This appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army, and the best possible security against it, if it should exist.”
– Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28, January 10, 1788“As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms.”
– Tench Coxe, Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789
That was long but necessary reading. Apparently Virginia has become the battleground du jour for the controllers. They may be in for something a bit different than what they had bargained for.
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On November 27, 2019 at 10:26 pm, Bill said:
So track down L. Louise Lucas at her home and have a discussion.. Completely Constitutional…. Would you like her home address and pictures of her family???
On November 27, 2019 at 10:54 pm, Torcer said:
If I may, a more recent quotation:
Certainly one of the chief guarantees of freedom under any government, no matter how popular and respected, is the rights of citizens to keep and bear arms. This is not to say that firearms should not be very carefully used, and that definite safety rules of precaution should not be taught and enforced. But the right of citizens to bear arms is just one more guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safeguard against a tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which historically has proved to be always possible.
Senator Hubert H. Humphrey,
Comm.: Foreign Relations Minnesota
http://www.gunsmagazine.com/1960issues/G0260.pdf
On November 27, 2019 at 11:02 pm, 173dVietVet said:
A. How is “civil disorder” to be defined ?
B. This (…”intending that such training will be employed for use in a civil disorder…”) is clearly an unconstitutional as vague and requires proof of intent from the viewpoint of the observer, not the participant, and would prevent all firearms training since one purpose of a firearm as guaranteed by 2d Amendment is personal defense in situations where “civil disorder” is present. The Heller decision spoke to this issue. Personal defense using a firearm is clearly within the protections guaranteed by the @d Amendment.
C. January 20th is a day set for citizens to descend upon Richmond and “lobby” the legis-slimes… What needs to happen is that all patriots drive to the capitol and circle it with non-stop slow moving traffic. and when the hour for the legislature top open up comes start laying on your car horns incessantly, and keep it up for days, weeks, if necessary. Have folks go on local radio talk shows demanding all to descend and honk to show how strong the resistance is against watering down the 2d Amendment rights. This worked in Tennessee ten years ago when a Republican Governor wanted to make kissy-face with DemonicRats and institute a state-wide income tax. The rancor and noise was such that the bureaucrats in the state offices could not function and began calling in sick to avoid the raucous din. The legislators gave up and promised to drop the plan if the citizens would just silence their horns !
On November 27, 2019 at 11:05 pm, 173dVietVet said:
A. How is “civil disorder” to be defined ?
B. This (…”intending that such training will be employed for use in a civil disorder…”) is clearly an unconstitutional as vague and requires proof of intent from the viewpoint of the observer, not the participant, and would prevent all firearms training since one purpose of a firearm as guaranteed by 2d Amendment is personal defense in situations where “civil disorder” is present. The Heller decision spoke to this issue. Personal defense using a firearm is clearly within the protections guaranteed by the 2d Amendment.
C. January 20th is a day set for citizens to descend upon Richmond and “lobby” the legis-slimes… What needs to happen is that all patriots drive to the capitol and circle it with non-stop slow moving traffic. And when the hour for the legislature to open up its session comes, start laying on your car horns incessantly, and keep it up for days, weeks, if necessary. Have folks go on local radio talk shows demanding all to descend and honk to show how strong the resistance is against watering down the 2d Amendment rights. This worked in Tennessee ten years ago when a Republican Governor wanted to make kissy-face with DemonicRats and institute a state-wide income tax. The rancor and noise was such that the bureaucrats in the state offices could not function and began calling in sick to avoid the raucous din. The legislators gave up and promised to drop the plan if the citizens would just silence their horns !
On November 27, 2019 at 11:08 pm, Peteypete said:
Ominous. History in the making.
On November 27, 2019 at 11:27 pm, Skip Fanning said:
Well there just went reenacting! A simple interpretation of 18.2-433.2 and there goes the WWII guys, then CW, and then their beloved units from Washington’s Rebellion. Bet they’d arrest the Roundheads and raid the armoury in Williamsburg before too long. DANG! I better bury my 6 pounder in the back yard. . ….Skip
On November 27, 2019 at 11:29 pm, Elmo said:
“That was long but necessary reading.”
Not to mention, it was completely awesome reading.
The wisdom of the Founders never ceases to amaze.
On November 27, 2019 at 11:52 pm, Garry F. Owen, Trooper said:
The ability to leave our own “Hotel California” was denied in full by the tyrant A. Lincoln in 1861. We are all just prisoners here of our own device. That train of abuses is long indeed, and about to come off the rails.
On November 28, 2019 at 12:02 am, Poshboy said:
I would imagine that the same hidden forces that influenced the 2013 Connecticut state legislature–a simple public posting of every delegate’s home addresses along with that diabolical formula to drive them out of their homes–will also most likely influence those of the coming Marxist Virginia General Assembly when these kinds of unconstitutional power grabs are attempted. College-dorm room progressive fantasies will meet Southern reality quite adroitly, with the intended effect.
As I recall, almost every single Connecticut SP personnel were pulling 24/7 duty doing protection details for these idiots on threats that never materialized. I know my friends in the Virginia SP will enjoy the overtime protecting progressive cowards from themselves.
Of course, that leave no time for LEO duties, which might be the point of the entire exercise.
On November 28, 2019 at 12:09 am, Sven said:
I keep expecting these tyrants heads to explode from a high-powered rifle from a distance with powerful optics get it never seems to happen and I can’t for the life of me understand why. maybe it just hasn’t gotten to the point yet? Maybe this will do it? I know if I lived in Virginia I would be making plans to deal with the situation and I’m sure many are. Going to be fun to watch I can tell you that.
On November 28, 2019 at 12:20 am, Eric said:
I’m reminded of a loud mouthed barking idiot of a kid in school who kept yammering about how he was going to kick someone’s ass after school. The object of his derision simply ignored him…he was, after all, a scrawny moron that really wasn’t worth getting in trouble over. The fateful day arrived when ignoring him didn’t seem to do the trick. The other dude finally obliged the village idiot. It was short and brutal. The second kid was accustomed to hard, physical work, had tested his mettle on the school wrestling team for years, bucked hay bales, etc. He wasn’t looking to score social points, just put an end to the barking.
I’m not sure if these village idiots really know what they’re calling for. I’m sure they think they do, but two hits in the mouth and getting tied in a pretzel in short order changed the kids mind in a hurry all those years ago. The problem we have is our society has kept these morons from paying the price for their stupidity as kids, only to grow up thinking that tantrums are the same as real fights. When a real fight comes, it will be brutal. It will be horrific.
On November 28, 2019 at 1:17 am, Chuck U. Fina said:
Seems obvious they wish to get the kinetic games started.
On November 28, 2019 at 1:25 am, chuck said:
So all those companies in Virgina that do tactcal training, no more?
On November 28, 2019 at 5:53 am, William wynn said:
Just steps away from, why have such weapons (AR-AK) if training with them is illegal. Little steps.
On November 28, 2019 at 6:14 am, Unknownsailor said:
If you don’t have your local accountability file put together by now, you are late.
On November 28, 2019 at 6:59 am, Matt Bracken said:
Wow. This could be called the No Max Velocity Law.
On November 28, 2019 at 7:12 am, Matt Bracken said:
“Just a working man with his tools” in Old Virginny.
http://westernrifleshooters.blogspot.com/2011/05/bracken-just-working-man-with-his-tools.html
https://gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/019/581/751/original/9de10df75bb81d2a.jpg?1574942879
https://gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/019/582/409/original/8c0a698be6573e34.jpeg?1574943107
On November 28, 2019 at 7:23 am, Blackjack1 said:
A few random thoughts after reading:
1. THESE PEOPLE ARE SCARED/NERVOUS! Not only have they “removed their masks” to reveal their true tyrannical nature, but they have telegraphed what keeps them up at night.
2. THEY ARE DELUSIONAL. There is near-zero understanding of the powder keg upon which they sit. Forget the blatant unconstitutionality of this bill, LEOs must be sweating bullets at the thought of how to enforce such a law, as well as realizing that the legislature just tattooed a bullseye on their backs.
3. Substitute the word “firearm” with “fetus” and they would cry like stuck pigs! Talk about a blind spot vis a vis the constitution!!! One activity (militia training and assembly) is being deemed a POTENTIAL threat to human life while abortion being deemed….a women’s “health care”??? Guess which one results in the murder of an innocent life every time it is performed (go ahead…..I’ll wait)?
4. I thought California would be the potential site of Lexington/Concord 2.0, but now I’m beginning to think it will be Virginia…..somewhere outside of Roanoke, perhaps.
Frankly, we should thank these politicians, I mean tyrants-in-training, for “skylining” themselves for us!
Semper Fi, and have a blessed Thanksgiving with your family!
Blackjack 1 OUT!
On November 28, 2019 at 7:37 am, Veritas said:
I’ve seen this show before, for those not paying attention in California, Illinois, Maryland, New Jersey, New York, and other places gun owners will complain loudly before the new draconian gun laws are passed posting Molon Labe/1776 part II style quotes and continue this for a few weeks after it passes then they will pull down their pants and bend over and take it in their butts all while saying “ok but not one more inch, this time we mean it!” There is no exception to this and anyone that thinks “this time is different” is a fool in the literal sense of the word.
On November 28, 2019 at 7:39 am, Matt Bracken said:
Here is a better combined image of the SawZall “Working man with his tools,” if you don’t mind deleting the above 2 images.
https://gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/019/585/771/original/dcee28a7761ad0c4.jpg?1574944271
On November 28, 2019 at 8:12 am, DrDog said:
“1. Teaches or demonstrates to any other person the use, application, or making of any firearm, explosive, or incendiary device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, knowing or having reason to know or intending that such training will be employed for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder;”
Hold on. This is worse than even at first glance. Though this is one long run on sentence its really two parts from a legal perspective. Scrap the back half about tactical training for a moment. Focus on
“Teaches or demonstrates to any other person the use, application, or making of any firearm, explosive, or incendiary device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, …”
Scenario: You teach your teenage son how to use a firearm properly. Any firearm can cause injury or death. You have met the criteria under the provision of law.
Scenario: I am a gunsmith and I am teaching barrel rifling methods. I have no way of knowing the intended use for the technology. You have met the criteria under two precepts in the provision of the law.
Scenario: I do a family fireworks display on July 4th. Fireworks is an incendiary device by definition. You have met the criteria under the provision of law.
What about the back half “… knowing or having reason to know or intending that such training will be employed for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder;” Its not smoke and mirrors specifically. But it has all the similar markers of the phantasm of hate crime legislation. Essentially how does one prove a negative? How would a boy scout troop in an outing receive firearms training (I did when I was a kid) and prove it is NOT for furtherance of civil disorder?
The courts are loathe to rule on intent in a broad sense. Its why premeditated murder and hate crime provisions are not as common in court filings as one would expect. So the courts and the prosecutors will stick to what is actionable and demonstrable, which under this bill is the first half of the lede sentence.
I also find it oddly constructed. If the intent was to prevent paramilitary training then why not —
“The instruction, training or dissemination of tactical or paramilitary training is prohibited, except in the furtherance of state agents under the direction of the governor of Virginia.”
That would clearly define the scope and point of the law. The sentence as constructed is to turn this —
“1. Teaches or demonstrates to any other person the use, application, or making of any firearm, explosive, or incendiary device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, knowing or having reason to know or intending that such training will be employed for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder;”
To this —
“1. Teaches or demonstrates to any other person the use, application, or making of any firearm, explosive, or incendiary device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons.”
Simple fact of the matter being that the provision can be changed at a later date by simple exclusionary remediation in a legislative session without much fanfare. It outlaws firearms by eliminating the training on the use of firearms and skirts the 2nd Amendment. Add under a separate bill that firearm use must be accompanied by CCW training, which is illegal herein and you have nullified the 2nd in the state of Virginia.
On November 28, 2019 at 8:18 am, Darrell Cloud said:
Put together a regiment of paint ball warriors.
On November 28, 2019 at 8:46 am, John said:
Muslim training camp map. I’m sure they will be ignored.
https://www.investigativeproject.org/maps/terrorism-map.php
On November 28, 2019 at 8:50 am, John said:
Muslim training camps map link. Any bets they won’t be ignored?
https://www.investigativeproject.org/maps/terrorism-map.php
On November 28, 2019 at 8:58 am, Carlos Danger said:
Dick Saslaw’s wife was my guidance counselor in high school. She was a typical do nothing public school apparatchik. Not bad looking though. Dick will turn 80 on 5 February 2020.
Some thoughts. This is a test run for future legislation at the federal level as well as any future states that are flipped. Think Texas, Florida, NC, and GA for starters. It is intended to instigate violence so as to declare patriots to be domestic terrorists. Around 25% of the legislature in both houses ran without Republican opposition. Lots of outside globalist billionaire money was spent in Virginia to flip it and create these circumstances. I have strong suspicions they bribed the Republican party bosses to create that void. I also believe that Senor Blackface AKA the Carpetbagger Northam and some key legislators will receive huge donations to their “campaign funds” for bringing this legislation about. It is now time to hit the streets and fight for your rights. The suggestion above about driving around Richmond and creating an insufferable din is a good start. Appearing outside the homes of these carpetbagger scum in large numbers and singing Dixie and I am a Rebel Soldier among others would also be a good idea. There are many more. Time to get creative and most importantly dedicated.
On November 28, 2019 at 9:59 am, Paraclete said:
The wording is the most diabolical dimension, beyond their intended
purpose of drafting this illegal writ…
SO, they want the privilege of DETERMINING INTENT.
Well, we all know how well that works just by watching their farce of
an inquisition on Trump…and associates.
It all boils down to the fact that they want total power…which translates,
simply, into total tyranny.
DEATH TO TYRANTS !
The Patriot movement has been warning for decades…
We told you so, we told you so…and by the way, WE TOLD YOU SO !
So the question remains….
What are YOU going to do about ?
I’ll tell you what we’ve been doing about it…
Arm, Equip, and Train !
And you had better be going about it like you’re the third monkey fighting
to get on the ark.
The Red Terror is here, they’re assuming power, and they have plans…
Which may, or may not include you. Are YOU willing to let them decide ?
On November 28, 2019 at 10:08 am, Jack said:
A new level of behavior is now needed
A new level of thinking is now needed
A new level of action is now needed
A New Level Of Training is now needed
Running across this Post, this day, has changed Thanksgiving……at least for me and mine.
On November 28, 2019 at 10:10 am, Fred W Seymour, Jr. said:
Come and take them!
On November 28, 2019 at 10:41 am, Fred W Seymour, Jr. said:
THE WRATH OF THE AWAKENED SAXON
by Rudyard Kipling
It was not part of their blood,
It came to them very late,
With long arrears to make good,
When the Saxon began to hate.
They were not easily moved,
They were icy — willing to wait
Till every count should be proved,
Ere the Saxon began to hate.
Their voices were even and low.
Their eyes were level and straight.
There was neither sign nor show
When the Saxon began to hate.
It was not preached to the crowd.
It was not taught by the state.
No man spoke it aloud
When the Saxon began to hate.
It was not suddently bred.
It will not swiftly abate.
Through the chilled years ahead,
When Time shall count from the date
That the Saxon began to hate.
“This destiny does not tire, nor can it be broken, and its mantle of
strength descends upon those in its service.” – Francis Parker Yockey,
IMPERIUM
On November 28, 2019 at 11:05 am, Dan said:
It would be a fine idea to schedule a mass (armed) training event in Virginia with invitations sent nationwide. Let the LEO’s see what they are up against. Let the politicians know. There has been too much quiet bitching. Without public and defiant resistance the encroachment will continue. It is the hope of these bolsheviks that they can continue to chip away at an armed citizenry until the point where there dominance is assured. The rest of us need to see how many of us are nothing more than bluster.
On November 28, 2019 at 11:25 am, Frances Schroeder said:
Seems to me that this is against the U.S. Constitution. It would leave the people unable to defend against a foreign invasion or a takeover. It would also be against hunters.
On November 28, 2019 at 12:06 pm, Phil Carson said:
That went about as expected.
Ol’ Max Velocity, along with the rest of us among the Alumni have targets on our backs now.
Nothing for it but to defend and protect each other and our loved ones.
Max and the other fine small unit infantry combat tactics teachers need our help because without doubt the peeping fuckin’ perverts know who we all are and there’s targets on all of our backs. It is a matter of duty and cause.
Can’t speak for anyone else, but Ol’ Max didn’t just teach me how to run a musket, he taught me how to be a Freeman warrior with a rifle in the finest tradition of the militia of the people, and that is a 2000 year Christian Western Greco/Roman tradition.
This is not going to end with only Virginia, this is a declaration of war on our free arses.
We are all Virginian’s now.
On November 28, 2019 at 1:06 pm, 173dVietVet said:
Dan (The Man) said: “It would be a fine idea to schedule a mass (armed) training event in Virginia with invitations sent nationwide. Let the LEO’s see what they are up against. Let the politicians know.”
This dovetails with what i proposed, akin to the Tennessee Income Tax proposal Revolt Using Car Horns.
Why not do boith and also have a “WE ARE THE MILITIA” Marching Day in Virginia. Not in Richmond, but in Lexington (as in Lexington-Concord, and its famous First Shot) ??
Gather hundreds of thousands to march with firearms, spears, pitchforks, baseball bats, etc. to show the DemonicRats that WE THE PEOPLE will not go quietly into submission and that we know who our enemy legislators are (no need to publish their names/addresses/children’s names/schools as they will clearly get the picture when we just publish their names and home towns).
After hours of passing marchers, all armed, the media will fall from shock (be usre to have banners cursing the TV media for the criminals and communists that they are.
Whoo-wee !! This is gonna be FUN !!
Kudos, Dan (The Man)….you got my creative juices flowing!!
On November 28, 2019 at 2:39 pm, Sven said:
This is deadly serious and to Veritas above 2019/2020 is a completely different Socio political environment in this country and I do think it’s different this time. We see what’s happening and it won’t stop. What are you prepared to do about it? You see where it’s going. I for one don’t view these people or any LEO good Germans who would follow their orders as human. An “Unintended Consequences” scenario needs to unfold. NOW. This type of legislation and inevitable enforcement by cops WILL lead to 4GW waged upon cops, their families and most of all, politicians. They will deserve everything they have coming.
On November 28, 2019 at 3:04 pm, Professor said:
The Nebraska Legislature passed this kind of law back in the late 1980’s, after a “para-military” group of cult-like “survivalists” had formed a quasi-religious organization and caused the death of a couple of members. The killing was a clear case of murder; and they were charged and convicted; as they or anyone should have been. The State’s use of the phrase “civil disorder” was a paramount warning in the subsequent legislation. I, and my friends, felt that was totally wrong. So, getting “In Their Face” I and others began a regular, annual, organized, get-together; in which we advertised for all firearms enthusiasts to “Come” for a “Fun & Freedom” Shoot. I was fully aware of the “Law” : Therefore our Disclaimer was Pre-event: Done For Fun! Not for a “Civil Disorder.”
On November 28, 2019 at 4:07 pm, Some Guy said:
Really pushing things aren’t they. Yes, the ‘repesentative’ needs to have visitors to her home. And soon.
On November 28, 2019 at 4:08 pm, Some Guy said:
She’s 75, stick a fork in it, she’s done.
On November 28, 2019 at 4:48 pm, TommyA said:
Nobody arrests an infantry battalion.
On November 28, 2019 at 4:53 pm, Paraclete said:
SADLY, as previously has happened at each step
these commies have taken towards encroaching
upon our rights…Nothing will happen to quell them.
UNTIL – everyone has come to the point of having
NOTHING ELSE TO LOSE.
Then, and only then, will folks get off their dead asses
and stand up for our REPUBLIC.
Till then, it’ll be only talk and rah, rah…
May God have MERCY upon this Republic !
As for me, there will only be a rumor of their demise
returned to where they came from.
Gentlemen, prepare to defend yourselves.
On November 28, 2019 at 6:10 pm, mjazz said:
Where is the exclusion for Islamids?
On November 28, 2019 at 7:18 pm, Don Carter said:
We are the only country in the world that has a Second Amendment.
Find one government in all of history that banned it’s own ARMED FORCES from “Keeping and Bearing” ARMS.
Find one government in the history of humanity that felt a need to document a “RIGHT” for it’s ARMED FORCES to possess ARMS.
Oppressive Governments are ALWAYS banning the People’S RIGHT to arms.
The claim that the Founding Fathers wrote the 2nd Amendment to give Our ARMED FORCES a “right” to keep and carry ARMS is S-T-U-P-I-D.
The only reason for the Second Amendment is to clearly spell-out the GOD GIVEN RIGHT of INDIVIDUALS to keep & bear ARMS.
The only reason for the BILL(list) of RIGHTS was to codify INDIVIDUALS’ GOD GIVEN RIGHTS.
Has there ever been a government that was not chock full of it’s “rights” up to and including declaring itself to be the Lord God Almighty?! (Rome, Egypt, Israel,etc)
Does the 1st Amendment mean the GOVERNMENT is allowed to give speeches? Try shutting up any Politician. But THEY would LOVE to shut YOU up, hence the FIRST Amendment.
Anyone who tells you the 2nd Amendment applies to the Army or State Militia, is telling you they think you are STUPID.
There has NEVER been a government that felt it had to codify it’s army’s/soldier’s “RIGHT” to “Keep and BEAR ARMS” because there has NEVER been a government that refused to allow It’s own soldiers to KEEP and BEAR ARMS!
The Second Amendment was written for the People, like the other 9 Amendments in the Bill of Rights. This was confirmed by the SCOTUS in the DC vs Heller decision, where they stated that the “People” in the Second Amendment were the same “People” that are mentioned in the First and Fourth Amendment.
The 2nd Amendment clearly codifies the “right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms”, and certainly not “the Militia”.
Why would “the Militia”, a type of army manned by citizen-soldiers as opposed to full-time “regulars”, need a constitutional amendment to guarantee they have the right “to keep and bear arms”?
Is there any specific statement anywhere in the Constitution that the army Congress is empowered to raise has the “right to keep and bear arms”? Of course not. …………. That is assumed.
the 2nd amendment,, specifies that the RIGHT to bear arms is the right of the people,, NOT the militia,,,, it is the people who will make up the militia,, but the right is not the right of a “well regulated militia” it is the right of the people, We the people were BORN WITH UNALIENABLE RIGHTS, meaning they come from GOD.
Epiphany … the Left insists there is NO GOD so they can deny your GOD given RIGHTS.
On November 28, 2019 at 8:08 pm, Checkers said:
The wording is pretty open ended. It would appear that if I simply went to Cabelas and asked for advice on a firearm part I would be guilty of “instruction and training in making a firearm” as would the clerk. As well, if I watch an online video of a guy in Texas showing me how to tear my gun apart and fix or upgrade it I am again guilty.. as is the guy on the video? Do they subpoena Texas to have the video maker extradited to Virginia for Felony charges? Do they spy on my internet habits to be sure I am not looking at instructional material on firearms? Not reading this web site? Hmm?
Stalin would be proud.
On November 28, 2019 at 8:22 pm, Andy_TLC said:
Time will tell whether the controllers are trying to ignite a powder keg or bluffing. My guess is they care nothing for our lives, much less our well-being.
Nobody wants to hear this but this battle is spiritual. Our rights are God-given and cannot be dismissed by mere men.
It should now be clear arms are only part of their agenda. They want our souls – lock, stock and barrel. Controllers control. Free men resist. God is on our side.
God bless,
Andy Havens, The Liberty Coalition, Virginia
On November 28, 2019 at 10:22 pm, Jack Crab said:
Va. Code § 18.2-433.2 has been the law of Virginia since 1987. Paragraphs 1 and 2 prohibit training in further of civil disorder. No one has has a problem with it for over 30 years.
Para. 3 is the new one that prohibits demonstrating with firearms, incendiaries, explosives to intimate people.
Is anyone criticizing this statute saying they want to be able to intimidate people?
On November 28, 2019 at 10:58 pm, Herschel Smith said:
@Jack,
A threat by county agents to arrest state agents who attempt weapons confiscations can be rolled into “intimidate.” That’s in the eyes of the beholder (including the DA).
This seemingly would also prohibit open carry (Virginia is an open carry state) as well as congregations of individuals as happened in Charlottesville.
Finally, you’ll notice that the code is “amended and reenacted.” Apparently, no one has enforced a provision to prohibit tactical training thus far. You can bet your bottom dollar they will now.
On November 29, 2019 at 12:22 am, Al Little Jr. said:
Time to start impeachment process for any that fail to follow the wishes of their constituents to vote party lines. Need signatures from 10 percent of those that voted in the election, Va code 24,2-233. Time for them to understand they are our elected representatives, not “leaders” and not pushers of political agendas.
On November 29, 2019 at 8:39 am, Tom said:
Virginia was a fine place once. I suspect it still is a fine place out in the hills where I used to hunt long long ago. It will never be tamed or disarmed. That said nut cuttin time approaches. God speed gentlemen.
How’s that voting thing working out?
On November 29, 2019 at 10:46 am, scott s. said:
From the provided link, the section of law was passed in 1987. The new bill adds subsection 3, which creates the crime of “assembling with intent of intimidation”. I suspect it would be hard to get a conviction under this and pass constitutional muster, but then again you never know.
On November 29, 2019 at 12:28 pm, elysianfield said:
Dr. Dog, Et Al;
The law, as written, could arguably be used to sanction anyone that reloads, sells reloading equipment, or teaches the methods.
“Teaches or demonstrates to any other person the use, application, or making of any firearm, explosive, or incendiary device, or…(wait for it) technique capable of causing injury or death to persons,”
On November 29, 2019 at 5:16 pm, mike said:
The Gunsmiths building muzzleloading flintlocks at Colonial Williamsburg are now criminals too.
On November 30, 2019 at 12:19 am, Renee said:
Think it thru everybody, there’s more to this than you think.
Here’s the definition of civil disorder from 18.2-433.1 in the code of Virginia:
“Civil disorder” means any public disturbance within the United States or any territorial possessions thereof involving acts of violence by assemblages of three or more persons, which causes an immediate danger of or results in damage or injury to the property or person of any other individual”. (This is obviously the same as the federal code, btw)
So you go to a protest carrying a gun, you can certainly be prosecuted under this law. No civil disorder needed, just Antifa crying ‘intimidation’. You’ll either be at the mercy of thugs or become a felon.
And if Antifa shows up and people are attacked and defend themselves using self-defense techniques learned in a class – no gun needed- ..and voila, your instructor will also go to jail.
Think about that definition of civil disorder, it is just an assembly of people where violence or property damage happens. If you are there and have a gun on you at all, your guilty of a felony if they FEEL intimidate. Look how open ended this is:
3. Assembles with one or more persons with the intent of intimidating any person or group of persons by drilling, parading, or marching with any firearm, any explosive or incendiary device, or any components or combination thereof.
Who will determine your intent…a liberal court?
This law was MEANT to intimidate, not just militia groups, BUT PROTESTORS AS WELL.
I work in law enforcement, I know a deliberately vague law when I see one.
On November 30, 2019 at 9:12 am, Bridger said:
Louise Lucas is a black democrat. She’s introduced this bill because, like many of her people, she loathes and fears gun owning white people. Blacks used to complain that whites disarmed them in the South but now that they have the power and the tables have turned they are trying to disarm whites.
On November 30, 2019 at 1:52 pm, Phil Carson said:
Understand what they are doing here: it is very difficult to disarm the very same people who hold their property, their guns, in their hands for the exact reason of disarming them. But more so, these defacto writs of diktat are the acts of outlawing people with guns, who have such private property, again, for the exact reasons above.
It is both a pincer movement intended to outflank the natural power and legitimacy of free men, and attack from the rear the natural born right to own the means of protecting everything else from tyranny.
Outlaw people with guns.
Makes the impossible task of disarming people a lot easier, so they believe.
All it really does with truly Freemen is cause such free people to become absolutely manifest in their Liberty and lives.
Captain John Stark put it best:
“Live Free or Die; Death is not the worst of evils”
On December 1, 2019 at 3:49 pm, Blake said:
If I were a gun club in VA that ran IDPA, USPSA, etc., this bill would make me very nervous.
And anyone who thinks the wording of this bill won’t be stretched to create the outcome desired, well, I have some magic beans for sale.
Oh, and I’d say this bill is a trial run. If it passes and become law, expect other states to follow suit.
On December 3, 2019 at 3:28 pm, John Smith said:
So…how exactly does one go about doing the tasks specified in the Declaration of Independence, specifically changing the government, even through “civil disorder” as defined above. The Declaration’s wording is clear: “That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government…”
On December 6, 2019 at 6:50 am, Hudson H Luce said:
If you look at the statutes currently in force, the ones outlawing activities “in furtherance of a civil disorder have been on the books since 1987, to wit:
Ҥ 18.2-433.2. Paramilitary activity prohibited.
A person shall be guilty of unlawful paramilitary activity, punishable as a Class 5 felony if he:
1. Teaches or demonstrates to any other person the use, application, or making of any firearm, explosive or incendiary device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, knowing or having reason to know or intending that such training will be employed for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder; or
2. Assembles with one or more persons for the purpose of training with, practicing with, or being instructed in the use of any firearm, explosive or incendiary device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, intending to employ such training for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder.
1987, c. 720.” https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/18.2-433.2/
The only change made by the proposed bill is this:
“3. Assembles with one or more persons with the intent of intimidating any person or group of persons by drilling, parading, or marching with any firearm, any explosive or incendiary device, or any components or combination thereof.”
So the paramilitary training described in your article has been outlawed for the past 32 years, and for some reason or other, no hue and cry against such statutes has been raised in that entire time.
On December 6, 2019 at 8:41 am, Herschel Smith said:
@Hudson,
Yes, we know.
See this post.
https://www.captainsjournal.com/2019/12/03/more-additional-deliberations-on-virginia-anti-paramilitary-law/