Carrying Concealed Not Legal Grounds To Stop And Search A Person In PA

BY Herschel Smith
4 years, 11 months ago

Dean Weingarten writing at Ammoland.

At about 2:30 in the morning of 28 June, 2014, Michael Hicks was at a convenience store in Allentown, Pennsylvania. Hicks had a valid concealed carry permit, and had a handgun in an outside the waistband holster, concealed by his shirt.

Open carry is generally legal in Pennsylvania, but it is not legal to open carry in a vehicle. This limits the practicality of open carry on a regular basis.

Video surveillance of the scene showed Hicks adjusting his shirt, briefly allowing the handgun to be seen before approaching the convenience store. Hicks goes about his business, but minutes later is stopped by police. The Supreme Court of Pennsylvania watched the surveillance video and described what happened …

Stop right there.  A law that indicates open carry is legal except in a vehicle is the stupidest law I’ve ever heard.  In North Carolina they want all firearms to be visible (e.g., laid out on car seats in plain view so they can see them).  In South Carolina they want them hidden so that … who knows, they can’t see risks, or some horseshit reason.  The cops across American can’t even get their story straight.

The Pennsylvania Supreme Court found that Hicks Fourth Amendment rights had been violated, and there was no legitimate reason for the police to stop him that early morning in June.

[ … ]

The United States Supreme Court denied certiorari on 9 December 2019.

Then there is this extremely important bit of explanation.

For several decades, there has been an assumption in law enforcement circles, backed up by court decisions, that merely the suspicion of a person carrying a concealed weapon was sufficient to allow for a “stop and frisk” of that person.

Law enforcement agencies generally preferred to have that power. I was taught, decades ago, somewhat informally, to always stop and search a suspect if I thought they might have a concealed weapon. I was told, by the officer who was teaching me, that “he had never heard of a judge who threw out the evidence if a weapon was found”.

Well, they were all taught wrong.  Obeying the law is not reason enough to stop a man (i.e., it isn’t a so-called “Terry Stop”), and if you stop a man who you think might be carrying a weapon, you don’t really know, in which case his fourth amendment rights have been violated.

For the hundredth time, this has been dealt with by the Fourth Circuit in the case of Nathaniel Black, who did happen to be wanted for a crime, but who was openly carrying and stopped for that specific reason by the Charlotte-Mecklenburg police department.  Open carry is legal in North Carolina.

The Fourth Circuit reached the right conclusion, to wit, Mr. Black’s rights had been violated because he wasn’t doing anything illegal.  It’s high time that police academies start to teach the truth to cops and it’s also high time police departments fill their ranks with thinking men.

Listen, if you’re too much of a dolt to learn and understand the law, or to question idiots who are teaching you falsehoods in the academy, turn in your badge and service weapon and go dig ditches or shovel gravel.

The Pennsylvania Supreme Court reached the right conclusion.  I guess even a blind squirrel finds nuts from time to time.


Comments

  1. On December 25, 2019 at 11:56 pm, KDKong said:

    PA law is that open carry is legal without a license except in Philadelphia. The law prohibits having a loaded firearm in a vehicle unless you have a license to carry firearms. The law predates shall issue and has its basis in hunting laws. Yes, it’s stupid, but we live with it.

  2. On December 26, 2019 at 9:18 am, George 1 said:

    Hiring dolts is a feature not a bug.

  3. On December 26, 2019 at 4:02 pm, Heywood said:

    “It’s high time that police academies start to teach the truth to cops and it’s also high time police departments fill their ranks with thinking men.”

    If the general public knew of the crop of McDonalds rejects that comprise current police academies, gun ownership would be at 100%.

  4. On December 26, 2019 at 8:31 pm, Jeffersonian said:

    “if you’re too much of a dolt to learn and understand the law, or to question idiots who are teaching you falsehoods in the academy” YOU’RE HIRED.

    Like Codrea said a little while back:

    “Sometimes you just gotta wonder if departments go out of their way to recruit the most outrageous moral defects they can find.”

    http://waronguns.blogspot.com/2019/12/were-only-ones-goulish-enough.html

    I’m not wondering anymore.

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