The Captain's Journal » What Does Handgun Ergonomics Have To Do With Good Shooter Performance?

What Does Handgun Ergonomics Have To Do With Good Shooter Performance?

BY Herschel Smith

4 years, 11 months ago

Grip angle and natural point of aim will not make you a better shooter.

A gun feeling “good in your hand” also will not.

I’ve been a practicing registered professional engineer for a very long time. But until recently I had not studied ergonomics and biomechanics, and things like pronation and abduction, axis of action, first, second and third class levers, resistance to circulation, kinetic chains, etc.

I would have been more likely to accept these pronouncements before I engaged in my recent study. Now, not at all.

I don’t think an experienced shooter should try to bias another, which I wouldn’t do anyway. Readers have always known that I recommend you shoot what you like, feel comfortable with enough to practice a lot, and get good with what you like and can afford.

I shoot .45 ACP better than I do 9mm and .40. I don’t know why, because I’ve shot a lot of ammunition, but it’s the way it is, after tens of thousands of rounds. I also shoot a 1911 better than I do a double stack design.

Here I probably know why. With the gnarled up knuckles of my fingers from RA, I get good purchase on the slimmer frame of a 1911 easily and efficiently. If you don’t suffer from RA, you have no basis to comment on what I need to shoot efficiently, whether grip angle, frame design, length of pull, or whatever.

A 1911 isn’t for everybody, and a Wilson Combat pistol isn’t for me because I can’t afford one.

Ergonomics does exist, and it’s a science all its own. I recommend folks schedule an encounter with the study materials.

Either way, it’s always a little oddball to me when somebody says (a) there is only one way to do this, and it’s my way, or (b) nothing matters, not even the things you think matter, because I say so.

Firearms,Guns

Comments

On January 15, 2020 at 11:23 pm, soapweed said:

Sir: Generally agree with you… cannot remember a substantial point of disagreement.
However…..
Whatever YOUR descriptive terms for a shooter to elucidate their reasons for their chosen weapon love/hate particulars, YOUR narrowing down the verbiage doesn’t cut much of a swath us us dirt folks… we’uns jes mightn’t not have quite the same enlightened lingo as you’uns cer-ti-fied engineers choose to use.
Dammit, I’ll call it the n’ way I see it, in whatever flavor descriptive terms as I wish. Best to you, see you in the trenches with whatever I choose to bring/use. soapweed

On January 15, 2020 at 11:29 pm, Herschel Smith said:

@soapweed,

I might have chosen language too complex to say that everyone is different and needs whatever they need to do the job the best.

But other readers may disagree.

But I think we’re saying the same thing.

On January 16, 2020 at 8:43 am, Drake said:

I had shot revolvers, M9’s and Taurus clones a lot when Glock first became popular. I was really excited to try one out so I rented one from a range. Grip angle, shape, trigger – all weird to me. I couldn’t hit a thing with it.

I know I could buy one and eventually train myself to shoot it somewhat accurately, but why bother?

On January 16, 2020 at 8:52 am, Bill Sullivan said:

Drake- I was at the range one day with my 1911, and the guy next to me had a Glock. I had heard they had nice triggers, so I asked to dry fire his. My fat knuckled finger got stuck in the trigger guard, and I had to twist it off. I never did try to pull the trigger. I understand that Glock doesn’t make them in adult sizes.

On January 16, 2020 at 10:36 am, Fred said:

I always tell new shooters to rent several firearms before they buy. From 22 on up, revolver to hammer to striker fired. Check them all out. This simple idea is only for self-defense for the untrained to marginally trained citizen.

The purchasing criteria are:

1. Does it go bang every time you pull the trigger?
2. Can you hit with it?

Nothing else matters. And just as a friendly reminder; self defense is not hunting and it’s not combat although big predator country applications may be different.

The necessity is to hit the assailant FIRST. In well over 99% of all self defense encounters the first shot landed wins the gunfight regardless of caliber of shot placement. The object is to get the assailant to disengage!!!

Stopping power and shot placement are about hunting and warfare not the average citizen defending themselves.

1. You must have confidence in the weapon.
2. You must have confidence in yourself.

Take the Basic Handgun course offered at your local range by a qualified man or woman that you trust. For women, I strongly recommend getting trained by a qualified woman. It’s a good idea to just hang out at the range and talk to the trainers before committing.

1. If you don’t trust the weapon get one that you do trust.
2. If you don’t trust yourself get professionally trained.

Get the gun you can hit with. Practice like crazy. Learn to draw. Learn to draw because Time To Muzzle On Target is more important than anything in the wearing of a firearm, right after trust in the weapon and your ability to hit with it.

On January 16, 2020 at 10:39 am, Thomas Madere said:

Here is my test for handgun ergonomics. Pick up any gun with a two hand firing grip, point it to the ground. Now close your eyes and bring it up to presentation Open you eyes and what is the sight alignment. For me with a 1911 the front and rear are almost always inline elevation wise but may be a little off in windage. My Ruger Mk II with the Luger grip angle always has the front sigh substantially high. My G19 is between both. I feel that is why I shoot the 1911 better than the others especially during speed drills.

On January 16, 2020 at 11:10 am, Fred said:

Mr. Madere, that’s interesting. Never heard of doing that, although it makes sense re; finding your dominant eye. Next time at the blaster stoar I’ll try that with a few. Thanks.

On January 16, 2020 at 12:08 pm, Montana Guy said:

Analysis is good. Range time is better.

Arthritis was a game-changer. Goodbye G19. Hello again Mark I. So glad I didn’t sell you. I still feel quite comfortable re. self-defense.

On January 16, 2020 at 12:40 pm, Heywood said:

Sorry, don’t buy it. Yep, without proper mechanics you will suck, but to poo poo the mental aspect is crap. For many, many people, if the gun feels good and they THINK you can shoot it better, they will. In 30+ years, I’ve seen it with these tired old eyes. Is it the panacea for all shooting woes…absolutely not. But I put people who proclaim with certainty that it doesn’t make any difference in the same camp with the “Glocks are better/worse period, end of conversation” or “anything less than .40 is a waste and doesn’t work” club. Buy what you like, shoot what you have, and thank God for every day you see the green side of the grass.

On January 16, 2020 at 12:42 pm, Morris Schaffer said:

Being able to work the slide is an overlooked feature. I got my best weapon because a buddy couldn’t work the slide easily and he was in that hyped up .40 cal is the best round ever phase.
My rule is that the front sight is everything and always keep it in mind.
1911 will always be the king of the pistols with 9MM close behind.
I always laugh at the mine is bigger guys who think high caliber equals badassery.
It is about what you can hit with over and over. If you can’t hold the weapon or work the slide or if the recoil is too much then there won’t be any shots on target.

On January 16, 2020 at 1:15 pm, billrla said:

I find that a Glock is more thumb-point than finger-point, and that wrist angle must be more flat to shoot flat, rather than high, with a Glock. Other than that, you shoot how you practice. Other than practice, yes, what feels “right” and comfortable for the individual shooter matters.

On January 16, 2020 at 1:31 pm, Fred said:

@Heywood, yep, it’s about confidence, specifically in the firearm and then in yourself. These are the 2 biggest hurdles, for women shooters especially.

On January 16, 2020 at 6:53 pm, Bill Buppert said:

Per the title question, yes. The mechanics of your hand and arm determine your accuracy and speed largely dependent on your genetic gifts enhanced by athletic augmentation. Like Herschel, I’m an engineer and recently conducted a family marksmanship handgun clinic for my lads and I.

We really examined just what makes the hand and arm (RMR and both eyes open for all engagements) optimally positioned for handgun use (my eldest is a mechanical engineer). Remember that all root cause analysis has many vectors so these are just a few. I’ll offer a few observations:

Train your dominant hand (and your support hand for that matter) to operate the index independent of the lower three digits. Hold your hand up, index the ceiling and consciously squeeze the lower three fingers together (with or without a small ball), at first the index will sympathetically rotate toward your centerline. This may account for shooting low and to the left. Train the index to remain straight while the lower three digits squeeze.

Your pinky is the single greatest digit for follow-through stability through the shot sequence; it may appear the weakest but it is the furthest grappling point perpendicular and below the axis of the gun hence its out-sized influence on stability. Don’t believe me? Take your pinky off the handgun and fire a string. Right.

Your thenar (web musculature betwixt thumb and index) is a right powerful vice to steady the shot impulses as they recoil along the axis of the barrel. I’ve even leveraged this by mounting “gas pedals” at 270deg on the forward end of the AR handguard.

I have some other observations but I don’t want to steal the fire of a Praxis essay I am writing at my site.

Your entire body is a combat chassis, optimize it by paying attention to the way it is built and the way it moves.

Cordially,

Bill Buppert

On January 16, 2020 at 7:36 pm, TRX said:

> there is only one way to do this, and it’s my way,

If you think they’re bad about guns, wait until the Holster Nazis weigh in.

> double stack vs. 1911

My new EDC is a double stack 1911… the grip is supposedly 1/8″ wider than a GI Model, but I can’t tell by holding it. Neither can my wife, who has small hands.

> ergonomics

You’d expect such things to be clear-cut, but the field is full of charlatans. The USAF did a lot of the basic research back in the 1950s and 1960s when they were working on aircraft control panels, but after that the academics took camped out in the field and turned it to mush.

On January 16, 2020 at 7:55 pm, Herschel Smith said:

@TRX,

I cannot stand holster Nazis.

On January 16, 2020 at 7:55 pm, TRX said:

> I shoot .45 ACP better than I do 9mm and .40.

.45 ACP (Army spec) 356 ft-lb muzzle energy
9×19 (Winchester NATO spec) 358 ft-lb
.40 S&W (Winchester original FBI load) 390 ft-lb

I have 1911s in all three, and I can’t tell any difference in recoil.

On January 16, 2020 at 7:59 pm, Herschel Smith said:

@TRX,

It isn’t recoil to me. It’s something else. Snappiness of the round versus pushiness, or something like that.

On January 16, 2020 at 10:48 pm, JuneJ said:

Three years ago started shooting pistols again after more than two decades since last owning one. One long afternoon in a local gun store picking up different brands/models I settled on a M&P Shield because of how comfortable it felt in my hand. Over 3 years purchased 5 M&P 9mm’s with thousands of rounds through each of them. However, I just bought a Sig P229 DA/SA and I shoot it better brand new than any of the M&P’s that still “feel better” in my hands. Ergonomics matter, but seems like a lot of other factors do as well. At least that’s my limited experience!

On January 17, 2020 at 8:17 am, Fred said:

@JuneJ, I had a shield in .40 and couldn’t hit with it for nothing. It was good for 3 to 5 yrds which is no good at all because I could not trust myself to hit with it in a million other situations. And like Herschel, I can’t really shoot .40 and 9mil anyway. It’s too poppy or jumpy or something.

On January 21, 2020 at 6:12 pm, =BCE56= said:

1911s- full size, Commanders and Officers just feel right. I prefer them to all others. The BHP also works well. And my 3913 is not far behind. CZ 75 looks promising.
I have no particular love for Glocks but I guess I could get used to one. The XD feels better in my hand.
Replacing the factory grips on my S&W revolvers made a big difference.
The grip angles on P08 Luger and Ruger Mk II are somewhat extreme for me. The grip angle on my High Standard Field King is similar, but for some reason I can shoot it better.
My C96 was an ergonomic nightmare- sold it to somebody who wanted it more than I did.
Each to his own…

And try before you buy.

On January 15, 2020 at 11:23 pm, soapweed said:

Sir: Generally agree with you… cannot remember a substantial point of disagreement.
However…..
Whatever YOUR descriptive terms for a shooter to elucidate their reasons for their chosen weapon love/hate particulars, YOUR narrowing down the verbiage doesn’t cut much of a swath us us dirt folks… we’uns jes mightn’t not have quite the same enlightened lingo as you’uns cer-ti-fied engineers choose to use.
Dammit, I’ll call it the n’ way I see it, in whatever flavor descriptive terms as I wish. Best to you, see you in the trenches with whatever I choose to bring/use. soapweed
On January 15, 2020 at 11:29 pm, Herschel Smith said:

@soapweed,

I might have chosen language too complex to say that everyone is different and needs whatever they need to do the job the best.

But other readers may disagree.

But I think we’re saying the same thing.
On January 16, 2020 at 8:43 am, Drake said:

I had shot revolvers, M9’s and Taurus clones a lot when Glock first became popular. I was really excited to try one out so I rented one from a range. Grip angle, shape, trigger – all weird to me. I couldn’t hit a thing with it.

I know I could buy one and eventually train myself to shoot it somewhat accurately, but why bother?
On January 16, 2020 at 8:52 am, Bill Sullivan said:

Drake- I was at the range one day with my 1911, and the guy next to me had a Glock. I had heard they had nice triggers, so I asked to dry fire his. My fat knuckled finger got stuck in the trigger guard, and I had to twist it off. I never did try to pull the trigger. I understand that Glock doesn’t make them in adult sizes.
On January 16, 2020 at 10:36 am, Fred said:

I always tell new shooters to rent several firearms before they buy. From 22 on up, revolver to hammer to striker fired. Check them all out. This simple idea is only for self-defense for the untrained to marginally trained citizen.

The purchasing criteria are:

1. Does it go bang every time you pull the trigger?
2. Can you hit with it?

Nothing else matters. And just as a friendly reminder; self defense is not hunting and it’s not combat although big predator country applications may be different.

The necessity is to hit the assailant FIRST. In well over 99% of all self defense encounters the first shot landed wins the gunfight regardless of caliber of shot placement. The object is to get the assailant to disengage!!!

Stopping power and shot placement are about hunting and warfare not the average citizen defending themselves.

1. You must have confidence in the weapon.
2. You must have confidence in yourself.

Take the Basic Handgun course offered at your local range by a qualified man or woman that you trust. For women, I strongly recommend getting trained by a qualified woman. It’s a good idea to just hang out at the range and talk to the trainers before committing.

1. If you don’t trust the weapon get one that you do trust.
2. If you don’t trust yourself get professionally trained.

Get the gun you can hit with. Practice like crazy. Learn to draw. Learn to draw because Time To Muzzle On Target is more important than anything in the wearing of a firearm, right after trust in the weapon and your ability to hit with it.
On January 16, 2020 at 10:39 am, Thomas Madere said:

Here is my test for handgun ergonomics. Pick up any gun with a two hand firing grip, point it to the ground. Now close your eyes and bring it up to presentation Open you eyes and what is the sight alignment. For me with a 1911 the front and rear are almost always inline elevation wise but may be a little off in windage. My Ruger Mk II with the Luger grip angle always has the front sigh substantially high. My G19 is between both. I feel that is why I shoot the 1911 better than the others especially during speed drills.
On January 16, 2020 at 11:10 am, Fred said:

Mr. Madere, that’s interesting. Never heard of doing that, although it makes sense re; finding your dominant eye. Next time at the blaster stoar I’ll try that with a few. Thanks.
On January 16, 2020 at 12:08 pm, Montana Guy said:

Analysis is good. Range time is better.

Arthritis was a game-changer. Goodbye G19. Hello again Mark I. So glad I didn’t sell you. I still feel quite comfortable re. self-defense.
On January 16, 2020 at 12:40 pm, Heywood said:

Sorry, don’t buy it. Yep, without proper mechanics you will suck, but to poo poo the mental aspect is crap. For many, many people, if the gun feels good and they THINK you can shoot it better, they will. In 30+ years, I’ve seen it with these tired old eyes. Is it the panacea for all shooting woes…absolutely not. But I put people who proclaim with certainty that it doesn’t make any difference in the same camp with the “Glocks are better/worse period, end of conversation” or “anything less than .40 is a waste and doesn’t work” club. Buy what you like, shoot what you have, and thank God for every day you see the green side of the grass.
On January 16, 2020 at 12:42 pm, Morris Schaffer said:

Being able to work the slide is an overlooked feature. I got my best weapon because a buddy couldn’t work the slide easily and he was in that hyped up .40 cal is the best round ever phase.
My rule is that the front sight is everything and always keep it in mind.
1911 will always be the king of the pistols with 9MM close behind.
I always laugh at the mine is bigger guys who think high caliber equals badassery.
It is about what you can hit with over and over. If you can’t hold the weapon or work the slide or if the recoil is too much then there won’t be any shots on target.
On January 16, 2020 at 1:15 pm, billrla said:

I find that a Glock is more thumb-point than finger-point, and that wrist angle must be more flat to shoot flat, rather than high, with a Glock. Other than that, you shoot how you practice. Other than practice, yes, what feels “right” and comfortable for the individual shooter matters.
On January 16, 2020 at 1:31 pm, Fred said:

@Heywood, yep, it’s about confidence, specifically in the firearm and then in yourself. These are the 2 biggest hurdles, for women shooters especially.
On January 16, 2020 at 6:53 pm, Bill Buppert said:

Per the title question, yes. The mechanics of your hand and arm determine your accuracy and speed largely dependent on your genetic gifts enhanced by athletic augmentation. Like Herschel, I’m an engineer and recently conducted a family marksmanship handgun clinic for my lads and I.

We really examined just what makes the hand and arm (RMR and both eyes open for all engagements) optimally positioned for handgun use (my eldest is a mechanical engineer). Remember that all root cause analysis has many vectors so these are just a few. I’ll offer a few observations:

Train your dominant hand (and your support hand for that matter) to operate the index independent of the lower three digits. Hold your hand up, index the ceiling and consciously squeeze the lower three fingers together (with or without a small ball), at first the index will sympathetically rotate toward your centerline. This may account for shooting low and to the left. Train the index to remain straight while the lower three digits squeeze.

Your pinky is the single greatest digit for follow-through stability through the shot sequence; it may appear the weakest but it is the furthest grappling point perpendicular and below the axis of the gun hence its out-sized influence on stability. Don’t believe me? Take your pinky off the handgun and fire a string. Right.

Your thenar (web musculature betwixt thumb and index) is a right powerful vice to steady the shot impulses as they recoil along the axis of the barrel. I’ve even leveraged this by mounting “gas pedals” at 270deg on the forward end of the AR handguard.

I have some other observations but I don’t want to steal the fire of a Praxis essay I am writing at my site.

Your entire body is a combat chassis, optimize it by paying attention to the way it is built and the way it moves.

Cordially,

Bill Buppert
On January 16, 2020 at 7:36 pm, TRX said:

> there is only one way to do this, and it’s my way,

If you think they’re bad about guns, wait until the Holster Nazis weigh in.

> double stack vs. 1911

My new EDC is a double stack 1911… the grip is supposedly 1/8″ wider than a GI Model, but I can’t tell by holding it. Neither can my wife, who has small hands.

> ergonomics

You’d expect such things to be clear-cut, but the field is full of charlatans. The USAF did a lot of the basic research back in the 1950s and 1960s when they were working on aircraft control panels, but after that the academics took camped out in the field and turned it to mush.
On January 16, 2020 at 7:55 pm, Herschel Smith said:

@TRX,

I cannot stand holster Nazis.
On January 16, 2020 at 7:55 pm, TRX said:

> I shoot .45 ACP better than I do 9mm and .40.

.45 ACP (Army spec) 356 ft-lb muzzle energy
9×19 (Winchester NATO spec) 358 ft-lb
.40 S&W (Winchester original FBI load) 390 ft-lb

I have 1911s in all three, and I can’t tell any difference in recoil.
On January 16, 2020 at 7:59 pm, Herschel Smith said:

@TRX,

It isn’t recoil to me. It’s something else. Snappiness of the round versus pushiness, or something like that.
On January 16, 2020 at 10:48 pm, JuneJ said:

Three years ago started shooting pistols again after more than two decades since last owning one. One long afternoon in a local gun store picking up different brands/models I settled on a M&P Shield because of how comfortable it felt in my hand. Over 3 years purchased 5 M&P 9mm’s with thousands of rounds through each of them. However, I just bought a Sig P229 DA/SA and I shoot it better brand new than any of the M&P’s that still “feel better” in my hands. Ergonomics matter, but seems like a lot of other factors do as well. At least that’s my limited experience!
On January 17, 2020 at 8:17 am, Fred said:

@JuneJ, I had a shield in .40 and couldn’t hit with it for nothing. It was good for 3 to 5 yrds which is no good at all because I could not trust myself to hit with it in a million other situations. And like Herschel, I can’t really shoot .40 and 9mil anyway. It’s too poppy or jumpy or something.
On January 21, 2020 at 6:12 pm, =BCE56= said:

1911s- full size, Commanders and Officers just feel right. I prefer them to all others. The BHP also works well. And my 3913 is not far behind. CZ 75 looks promising.
I have no particular love for Glocks but I guess I could get used to one. The XD feels better in my hand.
Replacing the factory grips on my S&W revolvers made a big difference.
The grip angles on P08 Luger and Ruger Mk II are somewhat extreme for me. The grip angle on my High Standard Field King is similar, but for some reason I can shoot it better.
My C96 was an ergonomic nightmare- sold it to somebody who wanted it more than I did.
Each to his own…

And try before you buy.

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What Does Handgun Ergonomics Have To Do With Good Shooter Performance?

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