South Carolina Open Carry: Enemies In The Camp
BY Herschel Smith
4 years, 10 months ago
I am asking everyone to consider the folly of passing State Law S-139 (Open Carry).
As a gun owner, concealed carry weapons permit holder and a member at a local shooting range. I applaud our state’s concealed carry permitting program and my fellow South Carolinians who have taken advantage of it. It is comforting to know that so many of our residents are responsible and committed gun owners.
The proposed changes to S 139 (with or without a permit) do nothing to ensure gun rights. In fact, they would do more to erode the rights of the majority of our population who do not choose to arm themselves every time they leave home. Instead, they would become vulnerable to a minority of individuals who, for reasons of their own, feel they must display their power on their hip.
Perhaps the armed stranger has had hours of classroom and range time … perhaps not. How would we know?
I have written before that “I don’t want an amateur with a gun anywhere near me. I certainly don’t want to be one.” By passing constitutional carry/open carry, we are not serving our citizens. In fact, it is just the opposite. We allow a portion of our population to endanger themselves and their neighbors.
If we have learned anything from the opioid epidemic, it is that a large number of people simply cannot be trusted to behave. We fail this population and their victims by promoting open carry and the display of firearms with or without a permit.
We have an opportunity in South Carolina to set the bar for gun rights, gun safety and responsible stewardship of the Second Amendment. With or without a permit, constitutional/open carry accomplishes none of this.
Bill Ware, Spartanburg
Well Bill, I think you have psychological problems.
First, as to your remark “Perhaps the armed stranger has had hours of classroom and range time … perhaps not. How would we know?,” you’ve neglected to address the very issue that defeats your argument. Concealed carry, which you allege to support.
You also don’t know whether a person is carrying concealed, you see? You’ve stated that the only problem as you see it is that when someone hides a weapon, you don’t have to think about the fact that someone could intend to bring your harm, but when they openly carry, you must think about that fact.
This is entirely a mental problem with you, you see? This has nothing whatsoever to do with the question can someone be safe with a firearm, can someone bring you harm, can someone be trusted. It has only to do with your mental state. I refuse to be part of your twisted mental world where hiding problems makes them go away. I hope South Carolina residents see this the way I do.
Second, as to your statement that “a large number of people simply cannot be trusted to behave,” you don’t know that. You just made it up. You’re in the same category of the chicken little naysayers in Texas, Oklahoma and elsewhere who said “There will be blood running in the streets” if this law passes.
And none of that happened. In fact, I live in an open carry state, and there isn’t blood running in the streets. So you see, you made a problem out of something that isn’t. You fabricated a falsehood.
Finally, since the RKBA is a God-given right, I’m not beholden to your views of making the world a better place for you and other collectivists. That’s not the purpose of the second amendment. The second amendment is a right, not a license for you to try to control other people.
You have things exactly backwards.
On February 16, 2020 at 10:35 pm, Danny said:
All you need to know about Bill Ware as a “gun supporter” can be found in this Newsweek article; https://www.newsweek.com/nra-membership-5-million-members-analysis-842040
Money quotes in the last two psragraphs
On February 17, 2020 at 8:46 am, Fred said:
The guy believes in the voodoo of a hunk of metal and plastic to affect the soul and behavior of a man. Or, he’s just a Statist in disqui…no longer in disguise.
On February 17, 2020 at 8:51 am, JuneJ said:
Bill probably also believes that unlimited free speech is dangerous and should be restricted to those who have been properly indoctrinated….
I mean, educated on its use.
On February 17, 2020 at 11:58 am, Paul Bonneau said:
Bravo! Agree completely.
On February 17, 2020 at 5:03 pm, dds said:
“Perhaps the armed stranger has had hours of classroom and range time … perhaps not. How would we know?”
Who gets to decide the proper amount of classroom and range time? Without a doubt, some of them would be the very same folks who want to legislate RKBA completely out of existence.
This is from the Wiki article about the 2012 shooting near the Empire State Building:
When confronted by the two officers, Johnson raised his weapon, but did not fire. The officers fired with a total of 16 rounds, killing Johnson and injuring nine bystanders, none of whom suffered life-threatening wounds. Three of the bystanders were directly hit by police gunfire, while the rest of the injuries were caused by fragments of ricocheting bullets, or by debris from other objects hit by police.”
“At a news conference shortly after the shootings, New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg and Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said that it appeared that police might have accidentally shot civilians during the incident. The day following the shooting, Kelly confirmed that all of the bystanders had been wounded as a result of police gunfire.”
So much for classroom and range time!
On February 17, 2020 at 7:23 pm, penses said:
One glaring thread that runs through all the leftist gun propaganda. They never call for the disarming of criminals. The true sign of a dedicated lefttard.
On February 17, 2020 at 8:03 pm, penses said:
A Johns Hpkins study found that the California background check law has no impact gun deaths.
On February 18, 2020 at 11:14 am, retmsgt said:
In the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania one requires neither training, testing nor a license/permit to open carry a handgun on his/her hip. They do, however, require a license/permit to transport the firearm in a vehicle or while concealed. The license costs $20 and is mostly same-day issuance.
Don’t know what the difference is between the citizens of South Carolina and Pennsylvania, but it Pennsylvania it’s no big deal to see someone open carrying, if they’re even noticed at all.
Sorry, but the only blood flowing you’ll see on the roadways is from a deer strike.
On February 18, 2020 at 12:38 pm, Geoff said:
Sometimes I cross the Border into North Carolina to shop because I CAN Open Carry there, except for Walmart now. I’m less than 10 miles from The NC Border and occasionally shop in Whiteville because the Sales Tax is lower and that saves on big ticket items. It’s about the same distance as going to Conway or North Myrtle Beach from my home.
On February 18, 2020 at 10:04 pm, Henry said:
“You also don’t know whether a person is carrying concealed, you see? You’ve stated that the only problem as you see it is that when someone hides a weapon, you don’t have to think about the fact that someone could intend to bring your harm, but when they openly carry, you must think about that fact.”
No, I believe the bill in question states that a permit (and hence mandated training) would NOT be required if the firearm is carried openly. “The proposed changes to S 139 (with or without a permit).” That is his objection. I don’t agree with it, but that’s the meat of it.
Myself, I say that you cannot be free to exercise your liberties without granting other people the freedom to exercise theirs.
On February 18, 2020 at 10:15 pm, Herschel Smith said:
@Henry,
Yes I understand that. It is a constitutional carry law. The point is still the same.
He no more knows that a concealed carrier is carrying or trained than he does an open carrier. It’s entirely a psychological problem with him.
On February 21, 2020 at 9:06 am, ft said:
Open carry is not a good law and not a good idea.
On February 21, 2020 at 9:22 am, Herschel Smith said:
@ft,
Prove it.
On February 21, 2020 at 9:24 am, ft said:
Open carry has ended up in guns being grabbed, stolen and used against its owner.
Open carry scares the hell out of some poeple, though thats really a fault of theirs for over reacting to the sight of a gun. It has started arguements between pro and anti gun owners. Its ended up in police involvement in some cases, which is never good for gun owners. To me personally, any guy who thinks its macho or cool or he is a tough guy because he has a gun exposed on his hip is a phony and probably a coward. Its just not the smart thing to do. I have carried for decades concealed and have never had a police interaction because of my gun because no one knew I had one. Its just not good common sense to open carry if you don’t have to, even if you think its ok according to your 2nd Amendment rights. Too many problems with guns in the news don’t help any lawful gun owners in any way. Its best to keep some parts of your personal life a bit of a secret, like whether you have a gun or not.
On February 21, 2020 at 9:35 am, Herschel Smith said:
You didn’t come anywhere close to proving your point. Concealed carriers have also had their weapons taken, and the notion that there is enough data to show statistical convergence with the Central Limit Theorem for open carriers getting their weapons taken is a myth propagated by Bob Owens using anecdotal data from a few cases.
Besides, if something is okay as it pertains to my God-given rights, then it’s okay. As for guns in the news, if there’s going to be a disagreement, then let it come. As for keeping things in your life secret, consider what you just said. It sounds cowardly.
Why don’t you take that same approach to your religious views rather than what God told you to do, which is be salt in the world? Stay hidden because you’re cowardly. Keep it in your personal life.
Some of us open carry because we don’t like to sweat our weapon and don’t like the feel of sticking a gun IWB.
On February 21, 2020 at 10:13 am, ft said:
First of all, I am not posting here to prove a GD thing to you or anyone else, nor am I looking for an arguement but you apparently are. I have nothing to prove to anyone. You use a few big words that I admit I don’t know what the hell your talking about with Central Limit Theorem and I have no idea who Bob Owens is so you wasted your time with that stuff.
As for God, you can’t even prove to me or anyone else on earth that God even exists so leave God out of it.
If you want to open carry, go right ahead. I couldn’t care less what you do but don’t attack me because I have adifferent point of view than you do over guns. Just like you, I am entitled to my opinion, which I have already given here. And as far as being cowardly, my record of 30 + years in Law Enforcement with a earned pension and time in the Marines looking for land mines and booby traps in Vietnam blows another one of your thoughts to hell. Next time yuou open carry, know that someone is looking at your gun and “may” be thinking about sucker punching you and taking your gun. It happens to open carry people more often than concealed carry people. Thats an indisputable fact, stat wise.
On February 21, 2020 at 10:29 am, Herschel Smith said:
” … you can’t even prove to me or anyone else on earth that God even exists.”
Strong words. Care to test that?
Let’s place a bet. I’ll prove that, and if I win, you buy me the gun of my choice.
“Thats an indisputable fact, stat wise.”
And thus you need to know something about the CLT, which clearly you don’t, if you claim that “stat wise” data proves your point.