California’s War On Christians
BY Herschel Smith
4 years, 4 months ago
PJM.
California Governor Gavin Newsom and county leaders are escalating the state’s war on church worship services, dragging pastors into court and demanding thousands of dollars in fines for illegally singing and holding indoor worship services.
This stand-off is getting closer to a religious hot war, with some of the same tactics being used, such as sending “agents” behind enemy lines to “spy” on worship services.
The state is armed with Newsom’s no-worship order and subpoenas. One county even nailed a complaint letter to a church door. Even Martin Luther would see the folly of that move.
In California during the Wuhan coronavirus, you can shop, eat out, riot, loot, and protest. But there are tough constraints on church worship. Churches can feed the hungry, but parishioners can’t take communion. Churches can house the homeless, but can’t sit six feet apart in the same pew with a neighbor.
This is the communist war on God that we had expected. It has been simmering for years and has begun to come to a boil. It will get more intense.
We will see who the real churches really are, and some will eventually shut down. Christians and their pastors will be dragged into court, fined until they cannot pay any more, and perhaps imprisoned.
On the other hand, those pretend churches who have declared fealty to the state will be allowed to continue their existence, albeit with no worship services (which wouldn’t matter anyway since nothing of any value is being said in those services).
Take careful note. The police will take an active part in posting notices, arresting, serving papers, and carting Christians off to jail.
That last part is for fools who believe that the police are there to protect your rights.
On August 26, 2020 at 1:23 am, The Wretchd Dog said:
Home-church is the only viable answer. No corporate structure, no 501c3 status, no property or facilities – just small groups of Christians meeting together to worship.
Which is not to say that we ought not resist the continued dissolution of Christendom and Western Civilization by any means necessary, but one ought always to have a plan B.
TWD
On August 26, 2020 at 7:29 am, Bob in NC said:
I agree – home churches will become a refuge for us. Not such bad thing per se, as it allows for more discipleship which is sadly lacking today.
It is also good that we remind ourselves of this, from Luke 21:
12 But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name’s sake. 13 But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony. 14 Therefore settle it in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will [f]answer; 15 for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or [g]resist. 16 You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will put some of you to death. 17 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. 18 But not a hair of your head shall be lost. 19 By your patience possess your souls.
On August 26, 2020 at 7:43 am, June J said:
You would think that the pastors like John MacArthur who are standing up to the state would be receiving overwhelming support from pastors and churches across the country, but they aren’t.
On August 26, 2020 at 8:42 am, Ned said:
June – that’s probably because most churches are 501(c)(3) corporations. The state grants corporations the ability to exist. So the churches have allegiance to the state first and to God second.
On August 26, 2020 at 8:49 am, James said:
While I am not a religious person am willing to fight for the right of those who want to practice their religion in their homes of worship,same as standing up for all our other right.
On August 26, 2020 at 8:58 am, Fred said:
Really the corporate churches should look upon this a favor, a blessing from God. One more time for those new to the home game; bankrupt your reprobate corporation or spend the $$ to unincorporate, sell the property or by any means have zero debt.
One cannot serve the Living God, while serving the IRS. One cannot serve the Living God while serving a banker. And one cannot serve the Living God in any effective manner whatsoever while having have two additional and false masters.
And, they can’t shut you down if they don’t know where you are!!!
This, propertism, is how they turned the church into Catholicism in the 3rd century. By tying Christians to land they effectively had a means by which to control the church. The job is to take ground be effectively wielding the sword of His Word to convict the wicked and save the lost.
Imagine if all these people had to BE Christians instead of fake it once a week while being entertained.
What if somebody taught them the Standing Orders of Christ to His church until His return and they actually did it? Why, America could be a Christian country again having a society infused with Christian and Bible Law to the extent that it began to reflect in the laws of men and civil codes AGAIN. Imagine whole continents Christianized as all Nations were baptized into the Kingdom of God, and taught all things that Jesus Christ commands. And in this, Christians would be preparing the way of the Lord for His final consummate order, the date of which no man knows, but take heed; He is coming back. Oh that you would be found harvesting a richly prepared and ripe crop, His crop, in the vineyard He commands you to work. Steal not His vineyard, be not the one Talent and wicked and slothful consumerist servant of God, but bring returns upon His investment in you. He gave His life that you might live, you now owe Him yours. That’s the covenant.
He is the King, you are the peasant. He is the Master, you are the slave. Be not entangled with the yoke of the bondage of debt and government agency submission. If He saved your soul, you must work for him whether you want to or not, whether that was ever explained to you or not, whether ever understood it or not; you are to build His Kingdom, which is a spiritual Kingdom, by the proclamation to all men that they are sinners and will die a sinners death, unless and except the be born again into the Kingdom of God. Christians don’t reproduce through man and woman becoming one twain, they reproduce the never ending work of sharing the Gospel of His death, burial, and resurrection the offer of which is enteral life in Christ Jesus AND that you serve Him and Him alone all your days in this life, and the next.
It’s a fair trade the better end of which surely goes to you. You get Holy God, he gets, well, just you. Don’t be a pissy, whiney, infant milk taker all your Christian days; this is akin to theft of your salvation for you OWE HIM and Him alone your very breath. If every Christian told 10 people the Gospel we wouldn’t be in the mess we are in. He gave you eternal life and the Holy Spirit and you won’t even tell one person what He has done for you. In any other economy you be would fired and turned out in the street.
On August 26, 2020 at 12:21 pm, guy said:
It’s a good point.
From here on out if your church isn’t getting hassled by the authorities it’s already been converged and they no longer need to worry about it.
And it’s way past time to find a new church.
On August 26, 2020 at 12:42 pm, DW said:
Hey Herschel & friends:
A bit off tangent comment/request of you when time permits. I did buy a copy of Dispensationalism by Crenshaw as you recommended. Extremely enlightening to say the least. It’s definitely put my previous “Christian teachings under a new microscope” as I am sure you expected.
Along those same lines as I was web searching a thread the other night. This passage has become quoted quite a lot due to the increase in “sportiness” as of late:
Luke 22:36 if you do not have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.
In my web search I came across a detailed posting relating to this passage by Ann Barnhardt:
https://www.barnhardt.biz/2020/08/25/urgent-repost-by-request-the-one-about-jesus-and-guns/
I hope when time permits that you will take the time to read this post. It definitely expands on much of your positions and postings regarding Christianity and self-defense/weapons.
I do not know much about Ms. Barnhardt, but I have to say that she appears to be quite knowledgeable about the Bible and its various translations? The post goes into quite a bit of detail about the “Last Supper” and she makes the case about “weapons” being present at/during the last supper, which I found fascinating.
Ms. Barnhardt makes reference to the fact that there is a Bible translation called “Douay-Rhiems” which she claims is a direct translation from the original Latin text? She uses these translations to support her post referenced here regarding the Last Supper and that Jesus thought that this was appropriate and expected.
As a Christian raised from youth on the King James version of the Bible, between you and Ms. Barnhardt, while I expect to end up in a much better place regarding my faith/beliefs, I can tell you that my head is spinning from these new readings/new understandings.
So my questions for you when/if you have time are:
1 – your thoughts/comments on the Barnhardt post above?
2 – your thoughts/comments on the Douay-Rheims version of the Bible?
Regards,
DW
On August 26, 2020 at 2:11 pm, Fred said:
*sigh
On August 26, 2020 at 9:00 pm, X said:
“This is the communist war on God that we had expected. It has been simmering for years and has begun to come to a boil. It will get more intense.”
Yes it will. The U.S. is a pagan, Satanic Empire. The official government policy is buggery, baby murder, whoredom, wars for Israel, debt, and miscegenation. The U.S. will collapse from its iniquity like pagan Rome. The Tribulation is at hand.
On August 26, 2020 at 11:54 pm, BRVTVS said:
@DW
As a former Roman Catholic, I think I can comment about the Douay-Rheims Bible.
1. You’d have a difficult time finding a Douay-Rheims Bible. What is often sold as the Douay-Rheims is actually the Douay-Challoner Bible, which was heavily edited to bring the language closer to the KJV. I’ve seen it asserted that this is heavily watered down from the earlier Douay-Rheims.
2. The Latin Vulgate Bible itself has been revised a few times, so it’s not exactly what Jerome put on paper.
3. St. Augustin had some interesting criticisms of Jerome’s efforts. You can find them in “The City of God.”
4. In my opinion, the Douay versions are OK. I’d prefer the Geneva, KJV, NKJV, or Amplified versions, but it’s much superior to the NIV or RSV.
5. The late Rev. John Stormer devoted an issue of his newsletter to bible versions, where he argued passionately against the Alexandrian (such as Wescott-Hort) NT and in favor of the Byzantine (such as Textus Receptus) family of NT texts. I tend to agree with him and, if memory serves, the Vulgate is mostly following the Alexandrian text family.
On August 26, 2020 at 11:59 pm, BRVTVS said:
6. The KJV has another major advantage. One can pair it with Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance.
On August 27, 2020 at 6:59 am, Todd said:
@DW, the original text of the Bible was Hebrew. Then Translated into Greek. The original Greek is the best original source today for Bible. Anything else is a bit off as we are all aware of having probably compared various versions and seeing inconsistencies, usually because of applying modern cultural concepts to a time, place, and situation that was decidedly not a modern, western culture. Barnhardt has some excellent thoughts, but she is a full blown Catholic apologist, which I find problems with because the church in the Bible isn’t Catholicism- God and Jesus wouldn’t have a mortal mediator for salvation. Jesus was the salvation.
On August 27, 2020 at 7:02 am, Todd said:
Our church discussed non profit status. A quick read of the IRS code clearly tells you there is no reason for a church to even apply for this 501 status as a church is already exempt by its nature. All I could conclude as a reason why was for money (remember, our society has trouble grasping simple concepts without someone telling them what it means) and letting members know that they were tax exempt. Also simplify the tax prep for those trying to take a deduction. Oh, and putting a muzzle on what can be taught and promoted in church. Is was a hard no for us.
On August 27, 2020 at 9:33 am, Fred said:
@Todd, it’s more than just tax exempt, under the first amendment the church is immune to taxation, wholly and utter unable to be taxed. That ship, like so many others appears to have sailed.
@BRTVS, thanks for your explanation about the bible versions. And I was going to say, that the bible was in Hebrew and Greek. There is no reason to take the Latin texts.
@DW,
This will be long
Barnhardt is a great patriot by all accounts and may be a true believer, but only her and Holy God know… but…
1. The foundation of our faith is not in the right and duty to arms. It’s important but don’t base what you trust in God, by reading online or elsewhere as a bases to trust somebody’s opinions on the bible. (especially mine. heh.) This is the root, the rock* of our faith: “And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus is the Christ of God, the Son of God, God in flesh, God the Son, fully God even while He walked among us. This is our faith. Our salvation is trust in His finished work on the cross and our hope is to see Him again, this time as He is. Are you ready?
2. If you are saved get baptized. Jesus when He got baptized of John Baptist ‘came up out of the water’, which means that He went down into the water. This is why Baptist, Anabaptist, and Mennonites(?? I think) do full submersion baptism. Herschel, and I differ on this and infant baptism but we agree, as does any accurate reading of the Scriptures that baptism itself is NOT salvific.
3. The Gospel is this: “Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:” 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 provides the simplest and clearest explanation.
Jesus died on the cross to take your sin upon Himself according to the prophesies (scriptures). He was buried. He rose again the third day according to the (OT) Scriptures, proving He has power over sin, and death that if you put your faith in Him and finished work on the cross, you too will overcome sin and death to have eternal life in Christ Jesus, the Son of God.
3. Read the bible daily. Read the entire New Testament, twice. And then read the whole bible. If you claim to be Christian then read the whole book. People who claim to be Christian and haven’t read the whole bible run the risk of not being serious men at all, and in a manner, may make themselves to be liars.
4. Pray. Prayer is how we communicate with Holy God. I like to get a little flowery and stuff when I pray but I’m sure that God is not impressed. Prayer is simply talking to god.
3/4 – The bible is how God communicates with us. We communicate with Him through prayer. This is how people get led astray; they don’t know the Bible, and they don’t pray so they fall for nonsensical extra-biblical mumbo-jumbo. Back in the old days when they had bank tellers they trained them to spot phony currency by immersing them completely and only in using the real thing. This example is applicable to reading the Holy Bible and praying. How can you know a phony if you are not fully immersed into the real thing?
(More about the Bible and faith and action in faith:
I’ll try to keep it simple as this is how understand things best myself. The earliest first and second manuscripts of bible were of course hand written and transmitted in person, and re-copied by hand locally by those men in that town. The early church was busying itself writing bibles they were following the commands of Jesus Christ be witnesses of Him unto the uttermost parts of the earth, and to disciple all nations in all that He commanded. They were, a little busy a) doing the job that American are failing miserably at and b) were busy getting beheaded, fed to lions, tortured to death, crucified, burned in oil, etc. Modern Christianity has turned the Gospel into both a hobby, an intellectual pursuit, and a boorish and lazy religion.
The so called Textus Receptus was a call for any and all of these hand written manuscripts of the early writings. The OT they had, these scholars wanted all the letters and Gospels etc. This is how the Holy Bible including the NT came about. This was after centuries of persecution of the church by the Jews, the Romans at the hands of Jews, and of Romans themselves, and by Romanism (Catholicism). It’s what we have. Also there are “Alexandrian texts” of which the New American Standard Bible is one.
Most bible scholars are intellectual pinheads. This is not insult, we need thorough understanding of the Holy Bible but don’t follow these men or women, follow Jesus. I use the Authorized KJV for non-intellectual reasons, it’s the one that the Holy Spirit of God speaks to me from. Herschel, usually quotes the New American Standard Bible (NASB) here at his blog, and neither of us waste each others time trying convince the other about bible versions, or baptism which we differ on. I’m one of those, yes, one of those dreaded; the King James Holy Bible is the inerrant word of God for the English speaking peoples, person. We are snickered at from all sides, don’t care, how many men have you lead to the fullness of the realization of Christ Jesus this month? Then shut up and get to work.
If you will take the time, six months or so to read the KJV NT several times, a couple of chapters or three a day, if you have the Holy Spirit of God, and ask Him to reveal it to you as you read you can both, be blessed of God and learn proper English (not talking about throwing ‘ith’ onto the end words but sound and well structured language use.) it will bless you. In six months difficult English will be your new language and this will not only greatly increase your faith and understanding of God, but will make you smarter. Read old books, isn’t just a catch phrase. Rich and complex texts make you think, and work to understand it.)
5. Do not forsake the assembling together with other believers. I know it’s hard, I know the American Church falls somewhere on the; dead to false spectrum but find some folks who you can trust.
And finally (maybe), don’t follow me, don’t follow Herschel, don’t follow Barnhardt, don’t follow early or later church scholars; follow Jesus and the only way to do this is to know Him, through salvation, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit of God, and by reading the Bible daily and in prayer. You have to read the bible or you can’t fully know all that He has for you, the work, the gifts, the design and operation for the rest of your life unless you read the Bible, then, if you are saved, make every attempt at His commands and from this you find your “ministry” or the work and will of God. For what is the will God, but that which comports and only that which comports with His Word…and nothing else, ever. If you don’t know the bible you are failing as a Christian and since it’s a lifelong journey you better get started, today.
On August 27, 2020 at 9:38 am, Fred said:
* This is the relevant section of scripture; “When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.”
The question is; what is the rock? Is it a man, Peter, or the revelation from the Father in Heaven that Jesus is the Christ? In order to say that it is the man, one would pervert all of the prophesy of the coming messiah, yay, would make the entire Old Testament null and void for in the fullness of it is written of Him. It would reject just about every declarative statement that Jesus ever made about the Kingdom of God. The Kingdom of God is in the believer by the Holy Spirit, you are the temple of the Holy Ghost, you in Christ, the Holy Spirit in you, the Father and the Son being one in each other, “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.” 1 John 5:7. This is His Kingdom, not built by man but by the very Spirit of God that saves a soul from eternal damnation.
When, oh when indeed, will those of you trying to do enough work ever be done? How will you know if you have done enough work, been truly good enough to please the thrice holy resurrected Christ of God? What a preposterous assumption that dead in your sin you could please God. What a sad life trying to live and love up to the standard of Perfect. One is made perfect before the throne of Holy God by admitting that you can never be good enough under his own power, that you are a sinner, who needs forgiveness through the Grace of God by the sacrifice of His only Son, the final sacrifice once for all it being His blood upon which this covenant is forged for without blood there is no atonement for sin leaving us to understand that whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord will be saved.
I just don’t have time to refute Romanism. I believe many of my Catholic brothers are saved, but don’t take this wrong, I also believe that some of my protestant brothers are saved as well.
On August 27, 2020 at 9:48 am, Fred said:
“The early church was busying itself..”
That should say NOT busying itself
On August 27, 2020 at 1:38 pm, DW said:
Wow gentlemen, I am humbled and appreciative of your responses.
To BRVTVS & Todd, thank you for the information and references on the Bible versions and translations. I have research and work to do, and this is very helpful.
To Fred, thank you as well. You have provided a lot for me to unpack, digest and contemplate. I was a bit discouraged by your initial pithy response. I can assure you that I was not trying to be contrarian or difficult with my comments. I do find my Bible reading comprehension a slow process, so it does take me time to understand the message.
Of course, as we grow older, we hopefully gain wisdom and obviously the path of this country over the past few decades, a wife and family members with various medical issues, all contributed to me looking for answers and something greater than myself. So I have rediscovered and absolutely need/use the power of prayer & God.
That said, I still have many questions/concerns. You guys referring me to the “Dispensationalism” book has definitely been eye opening. I now understand that I have a more “Calvinistic” belief system, but coming across that post by Ms. Barnhardt was also very enlightening. I have never seen such an interpretation like that in the “New Testament”. So it definitely piqued my curiosity about the translations in different Bible versions.
To assuage your concerns, I am not someone looking for an excuse to bear arms. But having Biblical evidence that defense of family and friends was not only allowed but expected, I believe will be helpful in talking to “progressive” family members who are anti-gun (obviously current events have also enhanced that argument)!
As to Ms. Barnhardt’s Catholic faith, from what I can read, she is neither an apologist for the corruption of the priesthood nor accepting of the current fraud of a Pope and is certainly a woman of faith in God. And this brings me to one of my main sources of conflict/struggle regarding God/faith. It is this Christian faith verses Catholic faith issue. Being raised Baptist I am well aware of the issues & disparagement of the rituals and tenets that are present in the Catholic faith. I am also painfully aware of the disparagement and outright mockery of the Christian/Baptist tenet of “being saved/accepting Christ as your savior”.
As half of my extended family is Catholic, and half Christian, I am presently at a place of understanding that the beliefs/tenets of both faiths have value & provide different(yes) but still pathways to converse and build a relationship with God. I fail to see how this can be a negative thing? I do realize I have a lot of work to do and that is how I will find the answers I seek. My ongoing position to help reconcile these issues within the family is the age-old wisdom of “lead by example”. That example hopefully generates questions from family and then conversation, faith & prayer.
Again gentlemen, my thanks and gratitude for taking the time to respond. As my mother-in-law used to say, Vaya con Dios!
DW
On August 27, 2020 at 3:47 pm, Fred said:
You need a Christian mentor. Somebody who can help you to be made a disciple. I’ve tried to give some foundation, all scriptural. And I’ve given the set of verses that remain in dispute between Romanism and Protestants.
You may have missed the tree for the forest. The single point I’m trying to convey is that nobody can do this for you. Only you and God can do this. A Christian mentor can make suggestions, as I’ve done, but you have to want to do it.
But first can I ask; do you know that you have eternal life, that after this life you will not burn in Judgement? “And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:” Hebrews 9:27
“And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.” Revelation 20:14-15
All men have an appointment with the Judge of the quick and the dead. The question is; are you written into Christ’s book of life to be found not guilty on that great and terrible day, or, will you be cast into the lake of fire which is the second death?
“For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” Romans 6:23
Wages are pay. Wages of sin is what God owes you for your sin; for all sin is against Holy God. This wage is eternal death. The gift of eternal life in Jesus Christ comes by faith in His finished work on the cross in that, He and He alone has authority to save your soul from eternal damnation.
“But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.” Romans 5:8-9
Christ died on the cross so that you, if you believe, you will be seen of Father God as not guilty before the throne of judgement, Jesus Christ having paid your sin debt through the shedding of His own blood for you. We are saved through Jesus, in faith upon His finished work at calvary… and nothing more. It is a gift because He loves you. How much wages does a gift cost? Zero, it’s a gift.
“That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.” Romans 10:9-11
Jesus rose from the dead proving He has power over death, and authority over whether you too, will be raised up on the last day. You can be glad the Bible says “whosoever” because there is no rite, ritual, or recitation, no baptism, no Church, no riches or wealth, no amount of trying to squeeze by that can save you from damnation. It is Jesus that saves a man’s soul.
If you put your faith and trust in Jesus Christ to save you from sin, and the wrath and death and hell that you deserve, He WILL do it.
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.” John 5:24
Believe on Jesus and be condemned no more but receive eternal life to pass from death into life to be His son in the Kingdom of God.
“He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.” John 3:33
Set this to your seal, be marked for life eternal by the Resurrected Son of God Almighty for, “The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.” John 3:35
“Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:”
On August 27, 2020 at 8:40 pm, scott s. said:
It just so happens the “power of the keys” was the reading for Catholics last week. As a traditional Methodist I am more drawn to liturgical worship than the “happy clappy” sort of thing.
On August 28, 2020 at 8:01 am, DW said:
Hey Fred:
Apologies for the delayed response, I’ve got a ton of work on my plate and family med issues/responsibilities, so time is precious at the moment.
I want to again thank you (and friends here) for your counsel and I want to fully address your last response, but it will be this weekend before I can adequately reply.
But to address your ask: Yes, I have accepted the Lord Jesus as my savior, asked his forgiveness and for acceptance into his kingdom.
This is the primary tenet of the Christian faith, and found its way into my heart in spite of the “fire&brimstone” vengeful God and then the pacifist “turn the other cheek”, pray for his 2nd coming God I was subjected to growing up.
I rejected and still reject these teachings, organized religion as it exists in this country and a majority of the pastors/deacons/priests I have met.
We will be getting deep into the weeds, so I would ask Herschel if we should take this discussion off blog/into email? I know you can predict where this is headed and that all men are sinners, imperfect and good works do not grant access to heaven.
Duly noted, but words have meaning and if you speak those words to God and you believe them, then I have an expectation of how you will conduct life. Sadly I have seen far to often some of the most evil, vile, corrupt behavior from people who allegedly spoke/believed those words!
I may need a mentor, but I don’t need help recognizing those who truly walk the talk and those who don’t. God may grant them forgiveness, I do not!