Misunderstanding Theology And History
BY Herschel Smith
4 years, 3 months ago
I had seen this piece before and honestly felt robbed of the five minutes of my life it took to digest and then regurgitate this drivel. But since David links it and makes some comments it brought the acid reflux back and I decided to post on it.
Sacrificial Lamb nobly attempts to explain to the Boomers why they are, and will probably remain, the most despised generation in recorded human history, before they pass from the stage…
This sounds like a first grade class in a temper tantrum. I want it all, and I want it now, now, NOW, NOW!
First of all, as we’ve explained before, sins do not redound to guilt of those who did not commit them.
” … the Biblical doctrine is, as Deuteronomy 24:16 makes clear, one of individual responsibility … guilt cannot be shifted to others or passed on to the people around a man. Guilt is non-transferable; a disposition or nature can be inherited, but not guilt.”
So before posting such idiotic tripe again, the author should go do some study.
Second, there is historical misunderstanding in this tripe. “Boomers” … whatever that is, are not per se responsible for the mess in which America finds itself. Someone has been asleep.
This all began long ago, with Horace Mann, who decided that the state owned your children rather than you, and that you are unqualified to educate them in either mathematics or morals.
Social Darwinism took hold many years ago, and invaded the church. The manifestation of the project at that point was to jettison the creeds and councils of the early church in favor of falsehood. Communists infiltrated institutions of education, and mathematics and physics were jettisoned in favor of social management. Those graduates taught the children who taught the children who taught the children who today teach your children in centers of communist indoctrination.
Wicked men brought premillennial dispensationalism to the American church, in which the church decided to sit back, wait on the “rapture” (which isn’t taught in the Scriptures), and turn over sports, Hollywood, entertainment, scholarship, and government to the evil one.
You see, this project has been ongoing just about since the beginning of the republic, and in fact, this project has been going on since Genesis Chapter 3. Every individual who didn’t do what God commanded is guilty in some way, but let me make it clear, individuals are guilty and will answer for their own actions. Generations are not guilty.
I can recommend some very good studies in the American project, how it started well, and how it was hijacked. You can begin with many of the books and papers R.J. Rushdoony wrote, beginning with “This Independent Republic” (you could also study C. Gregg Singer [Theological Interpretation of American History] and Douglas Kelly [The Emergence of Liberty in the Modern World]), but let me make this one final thing clear. You need to read thousands of pages in order to understand it.
Misunderstanding theology and history (the title of this post) occurs because you don’t know theology and history. You’re an impostor, not a scholar.
Writing about a first grader temper tantrum is unseemly and embarrassing to the authors, even if they’re too stupid to know it.
On September 10, 2020 at 1:02 pm, Lori G said:
It gets discouraging to read. I’m glad you addressed it.
On September 10, 2020 at 1:37 pm, Houston said:
Projection Much? I’d say so. Accuse your target of what you are doing.
On September 10, 2020 at 1:50 pm, Fred said:
Just to add a couple things, and these are major things, that the “greatest generation” did; womenz voting and the federal reserve bank.
Herschel, I forgot the name of that book you recommend about the falsehood of dispensationalism, can you remind us?
On September 10, 2020 at 1:51 pm, Chad Bigly said:
How typical. Even when it’s spelled out for you, you STILL can’t help trying to defend your g-g-g-g-generation.
On September 10, 2020 at 2:23 pm, Herschel Smith said:
Mr. Hanging Chad,
I’m not defending MY generation. It isn’t mine anyway.
I’m indicting YOU.
And you’re too stupid to understand it, even when I spell it out for you in as simple of terms as I can (for the knowledge-impaired like you).
How typical. No reading of my resources. No understanding of theology or history. No deeper thought put into your response. No Socratic dialogue. No intelligent discussion.
Just ranting and tantrums.
Little boy. Grow up.
On September 10, 2020 at 2:35 pm, Herschel Smith said:
Fred,
https://www.amazon.com/Dispensationalism-Yesterday-Tomorrow-Curtis-Crenshaw/dp/1877818011
BTW, the 19th amendment was 1920. Not 19-whatever.
Feeding my point[s]. The downhill slide began long before the mid-1900s. The project to undermine the republic began as soon as the republic began.
It began even before that, really. John Adams knew the sort of revolution the American project was. Jefferson thought otherwise, thinking that the French revolution and American revolution was of the same origin.
But that’s an entirely different conversation. We can have it at some point.
On September 10, 2020 at 3:05 pm, J J said:
Another fine example of leftist dribble seeking to further divide people.
On September 10, 2020 at 3:09 pm, J J said:
And the federal reserve bank was created in 1913.
On September 10, 2020 at 3:36 pm, Matth said:
I would love to see a debate between you and Vox Day on the theological and historical justifications (or lack thereof) of Boomer hatred. It would be informative in many ways, and I think would go a long way to showing just how cool of a hand VD is playing the game with.
On September 10, 2020 at 3:46 pm, Herschel Smith said:
@Matth,
Not necessary, although I wouldn’t fear such a debate.
The point is that philosophical pre-commitments – axiomatic irreducibles, or presuppositions – control everything.
I begin from a classical Christian perspective, and it colors the lens through which I see the world and life. It’s commonly called “world and life view.”
He does too, and so does everyone. Most often, however, people are too stolid to understand that, and haven’t been trained enough in philosophy and logic to understand how properly to craft syllogisms and how they depend on presuppositions.
Moreover, I begin not just from a classical Christian perspective, but a continental Calvinist perspective.
For part of how this affects man, see WCF chapter 6. Everyone is accountable. Everyone has sinned. Everyone can do more to raise children properly and in the fear of God, do his work to the honor and glory of God, and take dominion of creation for His glory (including all aspects, such as government). No one is exempt from that judgment. Blaming such-and-such on someone else, or a generation, or a country, or whatever, ignores the very presuppositions from which I work. Thus it becomes a clash of world and life views, not a debate on a singular topic.
Finally, “debates” don’t often take the form of tet-a-tet. They’re most often long-winded conversations, e.g., Socratic dialogue, for this see Greg Bahnsen v. Gordon Stein, “Does God Exist,” YouTube. No one would read it because of the nature of the interwebz.
Unfortunately.
On September 10, 2020 at 5:25 pm, Fred said:
I think everybody mis-understood my comment about the Fed and the 19th amendment. In answer to the stupid column, the boomers didn’t do those things, the so called Greatest Generation did. I know the difference between the 19th century and 19xx and I also know when the fed was created and the 19A passed.
It was not a retort of the fact that even before the civil war England and commercial interests and mercantilism and bankers and slavers were trying to do to america what Lincoln eventually did. See Jackson’s writings related to the civil war being power of bankers and commerce and industry coming to destroy the south and his thought that everything else was mere pretext to the invasion. It’s also in the great movie Gods and Generals, although part of dialog.
I should have been more clear.
On September 10, 2020 at 5:28 pm, The Wretched Dog said:
Herschel: Good show!
“I begin not just from a classical Christian perspective, but a continental Calvinist perspective.”
I appreciate your deliberative, principled (both theological and historical) perspective.
TWD
On September 10, 2020 at 5:28 pm, Fred said:
ps. 50 bucks with shipping? yikes.
On September 10, 2020 at 5:39 pm, Cameron said:
I recently discovered rushdoonyradio.org. Rushdoony was an amazing pastor, teacher, and student of history. During the seventies he was predicting the communist revolution that we now see unfolding. It is said that Rushdoony read an entire book each day for most of his life. It is evident in his lectures. In 43 years as a Christian I have not seen his equal. He and Greg Bahnsen have truly enriched my life. Unfortunately, both are unknown to most Christians.
On September 10, 2020 at 5:50 pm, Herschel Smith said:
@Fred,
Thanks for the clarification and the sleight of hand sarcasm in the original post. I missed it entirely.
@Cameron,
Yes. Yes. Yes. ^^^^^THIS^^^^^
On September 10, 2020 at 6:11 pm, Brock Landers said:
At least the Boomers had nice cars but gas was 20-30 cents a gallon.
The pretty pink soy latte mobiles of today all look the same.
The 1950s babes were so hot with the poodle skirts compared to today’s purple haired wymyns.
The REDS Long March Through the Institutions transcends all generations.
Plan accordingly.
Hard times create strong men,
Strong men create good times,
Good times create weak men,
Weak men create hard times.
On September 10, 2020 at 6:58 pm, George 1 said:
@Chad Bigly. I will be the first to agree that many of my generation are clueless. However that is true of all generations. I do find it quite inconsistent that people like you and Vox Day, while claiming to be Christians, utter things like, (paraphrasing), ” The day of the pillow case cannot come soon enough”. Hoping for the murder of Boomers. In that example by “the immigrants working in nursing homes” whom us boomers supposedly advocated for bringing in.
I was a Border Patrol Agent in a previous life. I certainly did not advocate for mass immigration. Never have. Quite the contrary. You and Vox seem to understand that the country is in a whole heap of trouble. I would think that you would want to cultivate allies from anywhere possible. There actually are a lot of Boomers on the right. Not just the checked pants right but the real right. The Christian right. You and Vox don’t seem to understand that. But no matter. Maturity sometimes has to come with age.
On September 10, 2020 at 7:28 pm, Chris Mallory said:
Teddy Beale has made the claim that Hypocrisy is a virtue and the basis of civilization. His religious views are heretical at best with his denial of the full divinity of Christ not to mention his constant searching of loopholes to allow him to hate. He claims to have been failed by every male in his life. From his boomer father going to jail on tax evasion and conspiracy against a federal judge, his grandfather walking away from a debt, his boomer mother throwing his father under the bus when the Feds came a calling. He loves to call for martial law in the US, but he was cowardly enough that he ran to Europe (the better to loot daddy’s secret bank accounts). So US martial law will not affect him. I think his plan is to be the Consigliere to what ever warlord ends up controlling his neighborhood.
On September 10, 2020 at 7:47 pm, Herschel Smith said:
@Chris,
I don’t frequent that site. In fact I’ve never been there before.
Denial of the divinity of Christ. Martial law. Running to Europe. All very bad ideas, to say the least.
In this context, the post makes better sense. The post is a distraction to real issues, idiosyncratic, peculiar, and downright weird.
On September 10, 2020 at 9:46 pm, Matth said:
@Herschel,
Precisely why I read you and admire your clarity of argument.
As Chris Mallory said, Vox Day/Ted Beale is an idiosyncratic man concerned with his own superior intelligence, Western civilization, his (apparently heretical) Christian beliefs, and the inevitability of populist nationalism. I suspect that he would struggle to defend the righteousness of his hatred for Boomers.
On September 10, 2020 at 10:21 pm, George 1 said:
Herschel would never say so. He is a Christian man and he is humble. I will say it though. Vox Day would find Herschel a tough debate opponent. Herschel is an educated and very intelligent man. If such a debate were to take place Vox might learn something if he was honest enough.
Of all the blog sites I visit this is one I never miss. I have learned a lot reading the postings and the comments here. I would never claim to be the sharpest tool in the shed but I know a sharp tool when I read one.
On September 11, 2020 at 2:20 am, Wayne said:
Vox is not stupid, but he has blinders on. I used to visit his site more often, but lately it’s all been either Boomer bashing or everything is the fault of (((Da Joos))).
As Guinevere inquired of Lancelot in Camelot, Vox rarely jousts with humility. With him, it’s all c’est moi.
On September 11, 2020 at 5:57 am, Ned said:
I used to visit that blog. It became the echo chamber you see in the link, mixed with “who is an alpha male and so-and-so is a gamma” on the sexual hierarchy scale.
I don’t miss it at all.
On September 11, 2020 at 6:30 am, Felix Bellator said:
@Hershel said, “I don’t frequent that site. In fact I’ve never been there before.”
So you are opining about someone based on biased second hand information? I have never gotten from his writings that he believes in collective guilt. But he does speak correctly about population averages. Even Jesus spoke disparaging of generations, “Matthew 16:4 A wicked and adulterous generation demands a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah.”
If it is worthy enough to spend several brain cycles writing about it here then consider going over there to address the source and iron it out man to man.
On September 11, 2020 at 9:50 am, Herschel Smith said:
@Felix,
That’s cute. What did you do – look at Strong’s to find a time when the word “generation” appeared in Scripture?
You’re going to teach me Biblical hermeneutics?
Questions: Who were the two parties to whom Jesus was directly speaking? Among whom were Christ’s initial followers taken? How did so many people come to be in one place at Pentecost, and how did God orchestrate the spread of the Gospel to others, as originally intended, and what role did those two parties play in this orchestra?
As for going somewhere to address someone, why would I do that? I did it here.
Finally, as for “second hand information,” I take reading the entire post as using “first hand information.”
On September 11, 2020 at 11:03 am, Felix Bellator said:
I@Herschel – Heh, well , I interpreted what you said as you had never gone there. So mea culpa.
As for the rest all I can say is, “OK, Boomer. Way to match the stereotype.”
On September 11, 2020 at 11:10 am, Herschel Smith said:
@Felix,
You interpreted wrong.
I’m not a “boomer.”
I take it that you didn’t know the answers to any of my questions.
I take it that you do not know anything about Biblical hermeneutics. Yet you thought you did.
Do you often ascribe more knowledge to yourself than actually obtains?
Do you understand anything I’ve said? Do you speak English beyond a second grader level?
On September 11, 2020 at 11:24 am, Fred said:
This is what confuses me about post boomers. If the boomers are old and ineffective, then why don’t the younger generations take charge, as is there duty just like every generation before, and fix everything? They all sound like whiny cry-babies to me. And no, you don’t know my age.
‘The boomers made my life *snif* so hard. help! I’ve fallen and I can’t get up.’ BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA.
On September 11, 2020 at 11:26 am, Fred said:
*thar
On September 11, 2020 at 1:24 pm, George 1 said:
@Felix Bellator. I probably should not respond but since I have read VD’s site for some time I will address some things. I have been saying since the 80’s that offshoring jobs would turn out to be disastrous. I knew that the future generations would suffer. While the Rush Limbaughs of the world cheered it on, I wrote to all the politicians I could to tell them that it was bad idea. Lots of good that did. I was mostly laughed at by said politicians, friends and acquaintances.
I have tried to help people I know in the younger generations in any way I can including financially and I am by no means an affluent man. I grew up poor and was raised by two alcoholics who were quite abusive, both great generation. Hint, they weren’t all great.
I have a son whom I will leave my modest wealth to when I am gone. I save so I can pass things down to him. My needs are simple so he will probably receive it all before I am gone. So I do not try to use it all up by the day I die as you and Vox infer.
So tell me Felix. What stereotype do I fit? Please make it simple for me. I am not an internet genius.
On September 11, 2020 at 1:47 pm, Herschel Smith said:
@George 1,
But … “For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.”
First principles my friend. Their attacks aren’t based on first principles. They’re just throwing tantrums. They don’t understand theology or history.
On September 11, 2020 at 3:38 pm, Lori G said:
I read these comments,and other similar (but not as good) blogs, and it has made me realize one important fact. The so-called conservative right is about as bad as the left.
As a woman I shouldn’t be able to vote. As a boomer I am worthy of death. I suppose I should return the salary the government gave me for flying fighters in the Navy for 14 years as well. Perhaps. But God is watching. He sees what people say and do, what they type. He is judging each of us. And His righteous judgment is not far off. Keyboard warriors do not get a free pass. I served this country out of gratitude, because I loved her and was grateful for the opportunities she gave me. But when this country soon gets judged, I will no longer defend her like I once did, because God has been watching, and we are ripe for judgment, both right and left. I will be on God’s side, and He is no longer on America’s side.
On September 11, 2020 at 5:39 pm, Felix Bellator said:
@Herschel – In order: No, no, Pharisees and Saducees, the younger generation mostly except for Peter, I don’t know off hand, it was just a thought you could address the question directly since I interpreted incorrectly that you had not read the original material, often, yes, yes.
@George 1 – maybe you don’t. Did I infer anything about you in particular?
I’ll wrap it up there. Y’all have answered my questions. I wish you all well.
On September 11, 2020 at 8:13 pm, George 1 said:
Felix B. You seem to be taking up Vox Day’s inferences. That is what I was writing about. Vox day is constantly saying that Boomers are the cause of the invasion. Who was it that passed the 1965 immigration Act ? Who was behind the 1986 Immigration Act? How About the Immigration Act of 1990? The 1986 Act is particularly upsetting to me because in signing that act into law Reagan insured that America could never again be like the place he grew up in.
Vox says that Boomers wanted cheap labor. Not all of us buddy. That Boomers use up their children’s inheritance so that they can selfishly live large and leave their son’s and daughter’s nothing. NOT ALL OF US. If fact I would have nothing to do with anyone who did that.
I fully well understand that Globalists have screwed over the younger generations. Many of those globalists are of younger generations than Baby Boomers. But it should be understood that they screwed us ALL over.
I hope you understand me Felix. I wish you well too.
On September 11, 2020 at 9:47 pm, Herschel Smith said:
@Felix,
Your persistence has enabled us to get farther down the road to understanding than I would have imagined. You are to be congratulated for that.
It might have seemed that my questions were capricious and arbitrary, but I assure you they were neither. You initial point was that, and I quote, Even Jesus spoke disparaging of generations, “Matthew 16:4 A wicked and adulterous generation demands a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah.”
You should also be congratulated for staying within my world and life view and debating me within that context.
Now to the questions and how they relate. I wanted to see how you formulated your view of the term “generation” in the Scriptures.
You are correct that Jesus was speaking primarily to the Pharisees and Saducees. The fact that they rejected Christ was predestined, foreordained from before time. It was so not only because God chooses whom He will and is sovereign over all (Romans 9), but also because it fit His plan.
His plan was for the census to be called at just the right time, to bring more people together for the initial spread of the Gospel than would otherwise have been the case. Pentecost occurred right after the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.
The Holy Spirit was sent as the “helper,” enabling men to move forward under His strength to spread the Gospel to the entirety of the known world, taking the Roman empire within 300 years. That’s the role His detractors played. It all fit His plan.
The word “generation” in Scripture is complicated, as complicated as, say, the word “all.” Sometimes one must go to the Greek (or Hebrew or Aramaic), for the different words used, sometimes one must look to context.
For example, your understanding of the word “generation” has a hopelessly American, 20th century contextualization to it. It has literally no bearing on what was intended in the Scriptures. The man Zacharias, old enough to die immediately after seeing Gabriel, should be considered the first real follower of Christ, and again, he was very old (see Luke 1:18f).
The lament of Jesus over Jerusalem is well known (Matt 23:37). But this “generation” obviously didn’t refer only to the young. There were old in the initial converts. It obviously didn’t refer only to the old, there were young in the initial converts. It even included some Pharisees (e.g., Nicodemus), so obviously Christ’s use of the word generation didn’t exclude His sovereign work in the life of some Pharisees.
This link will provide a decent layman’s explanation for understanding the word “generation” in Scripture.
https://www.gotquestions.org/generation-in-the-Bible.html
I won’t reiterate it all here.
You see, hermeneutics is hard work. You cannot take 20th century American attitudes to the Scriptures and make it work. You cannot take short time lines to the Scriptures and make it work. You cannot read words out of context and make it work. You cannot abstract singular words or verses from the entirety of the report of all 66 books of the Bible and make it work. You cannot apply overly-simplistic views on the Scriptures and make it work.
You must be smart about this, and you must have some formal training. Back to your assertion that “generations” have something or other to do with the diminution of America, or the killing of Christ, or anything else in history – this is simplistic.
God’s sovereign plan always goes forward (see Isaiah 46:9-10). Literally, every breath you breath is sustained and supported by God’s decree from eternity (Heb 1:3). He knows every hair on your head and has numbered them, as well as the number of breaths you will breath before you perish, along with when you perish, how you perish, and where you will perish. The same thing goes for me and anyone else reading this comment.
Man has no option except to answer to His creator. Every man is guilty of sins, both of commission and omission. No generation can put you in hell, no generation can save you, no generation can destroy a country, no generation can save a country.
Genesis Chapter 3 was written long before you were born, and will be truth after you die. We need a redeemer. Christ is that redeemer. He is no respecter of persons, whether you or old.
He derided the “generation” (attitude of the prevailing culture) while speaking to the Pharisees, and yet saved a Pharisee. His initial followers were of the very young and very old. Jesus didn’t save “good” people. There are no good people. James and John were troublemakers. They were known as the “Sons of Thunder,” and people knew who they were. They had a reputation – a bad one (Mark 3:16-19).
He derided Jerusalem, but at Pentecost, they were mostly Hebrews. The most prolific apostle was Paul, the apostle to the gentiles. The Gospel had to move forward into the world.
Don’t try to put God into a box. You will lose every time.
All of this is pursuant to your single example of Jesus and the use of the word “generation.”
Again, Biblical hermeneutics is hard. Don’t try it without some help.
This has become long winded and so I’ll bring it to a close. If you care to continue this I’m willing. Otherwise, as you wish.
Finally, I still consider the hatred of a “generation” (however that is defined in myopic, close-minded, 20th century American terms which have absolutely no bearing on the interpretation of Scripture) to be a strange, idiosyncratic, and weird thing.
To me, it would make better sense to congregate readers based on, say, a hatred for the color red. Or whatever, make up the ridiculous reason or thing you want to hate.
I would hate to think I had wasted my life on writing about hating a color, or people of specific ages. What a waste. What a throw-away life.
It seems like dissipation and squandering to me. Couldn’t your resources and time be better spent on something else?
On September 12, 2020 at 1:22 am, Richard Roma said:
I can tell this guy’s article really stung you. Well, I am a millennial, the generation best known for special snowflakes, safe spaces and living at home until age 40. I participate in none of these crimes, yet it still is what my generation is associated with. Am I guilty? No, neither are you, but while you may be an outlier like me, the fact remains that your generation will forever be known as the one who blew the biggest lead in world history. It’s not fair to be remembered like that when your generation also gave us many great things. However, like a great man once said, “If you build a thousand bridges and suck one ****, you’re not a bridge builder, you’re a **** sucker” – you get me?
On September 12, 2020 at 9:07 am, George 1 said:
@Richard Roma. The reason I frequently point out that many of your generation are living at home with their parents is that I wish to indict the stupid criminals who decimated our industry while importing third would cheap labor. No one can tell me that they did not have this outcome in mind already as all of this was perfectly predictable.
Just about every damned politician on either side of the isle was in favor of doing so (payed off) and they still are today. This abomination really got started under the Clinton administration and the Republicans went right along. Those of us who tried to shout it down were drowned out by the oligarchs who benefited and were able to pay off their lapdog politicians.
I was not alone either. Probably more than half of the boomers were very unhappy with the situation but were not able to prevent it. The point is many of us are still around. We are your allies.
On September 12, 2020 at 11:14 am, Herschel Smith said:
@Richard,
“I can tell this guy’s article really stung you.”
Son, you’re in an echo chamber, and you’re fabulating things that simply aren’t so. This discussion thread weaved a tapestry to the point that I’m quite happy with it. I got to share the Gospel last night with readers. As a Christian, we thrive on sharing the Gospel. This discussion thread allowed me to do just that. I was jazzed about all of this – not “stung.”
Sure, the writer of the post is a goof, a cartoon character, but the others who read that site are trouble and in need of help. Maybe I can reach one or two with the Gospel. Brands plucked from the fire, as it were.
You also said, “the fact remains that your generation will forever be known as the one who blew the biggest lead in world history.”
To whom? How has that been established as a fact? We’ve done nothing of the sort in this post. That hasn’t even been discussed. How did you come to such a conclusion as that? Perhaps you visit that site, and if so, you are in an echo chamber with other troubled people. And apparently you’ve read this far and still don’t get it.
Every reader who has read this far is now without excuse before his maker. He has heard the Gospel. That’s a fearsome thing. You should ponder that.
To believe something like that, you would have to believe that America was okay after allowing people like Horace Mann, Lester Frank Ward, John Dewey, and others, to control the destiny of thought in America. You would have to believe that allowing people like John Stuart Mill thought-control over the elitists in America was okay and had no influence on things.
You see, the existence of Margaret Sanger was a result, a consequence, of preceding thought, not a cause of post-Sanger thought. Do you understand what I just said?
You’re still not getting the theological and philosophical rot that set in almost immediately to the American project. You apparently see mid-20th century America as “the biggest lead” in something or other. America was doomed by that point. It was basically all over at that point. The battle for the soul of America had already been fought and won by the powers of darkness, and also apparently without you even knowing that it had taken place.
You are in serious need of some study of history and philosophy. Again, this sort of thing gets me jazzed. I get to teach people with threads like this. More serious teaching has occurred in this discussion thread than any you’ll ever get from a Marxist professor at a university. And I don’t charge for it.
Recommendation: get out of the echo chamber you’re apparently in over at the web site that hosted this post.
On September 12, 2020 at 2:24 pm, Fred said:
This turned into a good discussion. Thanks for your points, Herschel, at 21:47 on the 11th. The link to “got questions” says 30 years. In one sense this is correct.
It’s 30 years to be a called of God into being a prophet in the OT (generally) and this is why Jesus “ministry” “started” at around 30 years of age after His baptism. Although, he had already been teaching in synagogues, and turning water to wine, etc. Jesus was that Prophet, and at the attainment of prophet age was His baptism and call for all who would (given of the Father) come and be saved.
Gentry calls a generation 40 or 50 years. Examples include being 40 to be a “master” or Pharisee, accepted as a religious scholar (I don’t know the Israel system for this, and don’t care, that system was destroyed but you get the point). 40 years in the wilderness for that generation to end. 40-ish years from the crucifixion of Christ to the destruction of the Temple worship system, the temple itself, Jerusalem, greater Judea and Israel in 70AD under Judgement. Those are some examples as the word applies to an individual lifespan a man. So, generations overlap.
The propagandists have further shortened the length of a generation in America to continue dividing us. Wall Street, on the other hand, looks at shopping habits and “purchasing power” to define a generation in another example of modern mis-use.
Back to the Word of God, one must be careful about how some would apply the word generation or you can end up with very strangled and tortured dispensations nonsense.
There is also the question of whether one can interpret the period between His first coming and His second bodily coming to set up His final consummate order as a generation, specifically relating to the seeking of a sign, as mentioned above. The “wicked and adulterous” generation was destroyed 40 years later, right on time, at the Judgement of Israel. But, we have the sign of Jonah today and a better one in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Certainly I could make application that the dispensationists and historicists that continue to look for signs of His (second bodily) coming are just as wicked and adulterous a generation (this has been happening for decades and decades now) since no man knows the hour or the day, Mark 13:32. Some people are constantly looking toward earthly current events and news that supposedly portend the coming of Jesus Christ, but almost exclusively these same people are expecting to suffer no Judgement or ill effects whatsoever and be poofed out of here in a “rapture.”
That the Lord is going to remove millions of souls, en masse, from otherwise functioning and serviceable bodies and whisk them into heaven is just strange and weird. I don’t get it. Does anybody know the basis and origin of this?
Talked to a guy, early 20’s, the other day, who (finally) got saved that day. He had spent his childhood in Sunday school classes etc and could tell you in great detail, based upon what they taught him, the particulars of the Roman spear that pierced Christ. But, they never taught him about the prophecy that pointed to that event, thus the proof of its fulfillment on the cross as evidence of the authenticity of Jesus as the Christ, and they never even taught him what Jesus was doing on the cross in the first place!!! The poor guy, smart guy and on the ball, grew up in a “Church” that didn’t tell him what Jesus was doing on the cross!
If you have an audience from 1 person to 100,000 tell them the Gospel regardless of age, education, cognitive ability, background, etc. That’s the job.
On September 12, 2020 at 2:29 pm, Herschel Smith said:
@Fred,
30 years is but one possible interpretation. “The current culture” is yet another, which includes both young and old. There are others.
But the specific value is irrelevant. Age would be represented by a histogram PDF (probability density function) and in reality would be very flat through each bin. It’s not as if suddenly 30 year olds have children, they grow up to 30, then they have children, etc. It doesn’t work that way.
“Generation” is only meaningful when, for example, in the books of the OT we read family history and things like that. For historical studies. For individuals, not population densities. It’s a mathematical thing and if I was with you in person I could put it all into a spreadsheet, or MathCad, or Python, and show you. I cannot do that remotely. For example, how would one construct boundary conditions for the bin (beginning and ending)? This is an arbitrary choice.
Given context, I see Christ’s words as referring to the prevailing culture at the time.
Context is everything.
On September 12, 2020 at 2:56 pm, Fred said:
Please don’t put it into cad or spreadsheets unless for your own purposes. My eyes would immoderately gloss over and I would be staring out the window watching the breeze in the trees. One must know himself and his limitations. You can beat a pig over the head with maths but all you will do is make the pig want to leave, if it’s a nice pig like me, that is. Heh.