WWII Pacific Theater
BY Herschel Smith2 years, 11 months ago
ZeroGov makes the following points at Gab.
It’s the anniversary of Pearl Harbor and I remain sure that Comrade-President RedDR knew the Japanese plans and desperately needed to get into the conflict over the objections of a population that wisely was choosing to sit on the sidelines as the world went to war.
I am further convinced that Hitler and Stalin knew each other’s intentions months before 22 June 1941 when Hitler would start to lose the war strategically with Operation Barbarossa. Stalin could not survive a two front war with Germany in the West and Japan in the East; he had to get the US to contest Japan in the Pacific, hence the many espionage and “useful idiot” operations in the US to shape conditions for the conflict. The 1930s was the high point for American communism and Stalin’s agents had penetrated all the way to the Offal Office to include Harry Lloyd Hopkins (one of Roosevelt’s closest confidantes [his “co-president”] & Soviet code name: “Agent 19”) and Harry Dexter White (Soviet code name: “Jurist”), among others.
Alger Hiss’ wartime KGB controller [Ishhak] Akhmerov “identified the most important of all Soviet wartime agents in the United States,” the book, “American Betrayal” by Diana West, says, ”as Harry Hopkins.”
You will note that all post-WWI construction capital ships were not in Pearl harbor on the morning of 7 December 1941.
It may not have been a popular opinion during the life of my one-time seminary professor, Dr. C. Gregg Singer, but he was convinced that the Pacific theater of the war was a totally unnecessary and wasteful mistake, and whatever differences we had with Japan could have been solved peacefully. Furthermore, he was convinced that the embargo was the catalyst for the attack on Pearl Harbor.
And it should come as no surprise that FDR was eager to assist Stalin. He was always an admirer of Stalin, ceded way too much in the post-WWII order to the communists, and did so in spite of the objections of Churchill.
In retrospect, it would have been a much better outcome for Japan to have handled China before they owned most of the world. Even now, I expect [and hope] that Japan amends its constitution to allow a more robust military. They’re going to need it against China.
On December 6, 2021 at 10:38 pm, Fred said:
What nobody will discuss is how the majority of the US backed Germany in spirit. But, the press was run, even then, by Jew commies, who backed Stalin. They gladly did his propaganda bidding to turn public opinion. But, I’m not allowed to talk about that and neither are you so we won’t. We’re also not allowed to talk about how the Jews got a country in the ME in return so mum’s the word.
On December 6, 2021 at 10:46 pm, George 1 said:
My father and most of my Uncles on his side were WWII veterans. My dad served on a destroyer in the pacific. He had the same opinion. He always said that FDR knew Pearl Harbor was going to be attacked well in advance of what we have been told.
On December 6, 2021 at 10:47 pm, George said:
A study I did over 50 years ago laid a solid foundation for the premise that FDR manipulated the Japanese to commit the first step.
We had the Purple machine which deciphered the Japanese code. The furthest west that one of those machines was placed was Hawaii. None of the American installations further west had one. FDR wanted in the war for several reasons but did not want to be seen as the aggressor.
On December 6, 2021 at 11:31 pm, JoeFour said:
Here’s a link to an excellent book, Day of Deceit, that makes a strong case that Japan was intentionally provoked by FDR into attacking Pearl Harbor.
https://www.amazon.com/Day-Deceit-Truth-About-Harbor/dp/0743201299/?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_w=V4taS&pf_rd_p=29505bbf-38bd-47ef-8224-a5dd0cda2bae&pf_rd_r=WYT44PPQM3Z6X26W8NMH&pd_rd_r=70b6e417-ded7-48c6-80af-89fbf14d68a7&pd_rd_wg=NIk8p&ref_=pd_gw_ci_mcx_mr_hp_atf_m
“In Day of Deceit, Robert Stinnett delivers the definitive final chapter on America’s greatest secret and our worst military disaster.”
“Drawing on twenty years of research and access to scores of previously classified documents, Stinnett proves that Pearl Harbor was not an accident, a mere failure of American intelligence, or a brilliant Japanese military coup. By showing that ample warning of the attack was on FDR’s desk and, furthermore, that a plan to push Japan into war was initiated at the highest levels of the U.S. government, he ends up profoundly altering our understanding of one of the most significant events in American history.”
On December 7, 2021 at 2:25 am, Aaron Yetter said:
Goes further back. We should never got involved in WW1. Or done any trade with either side. A lot of our problems go back to so called foreign adventures in South America,Cuba, Philippines and China.
On December 7, 2021 at 2:26 am, Stefan v. said:
The whole asian mess and a great deal more from 1945 onwards could have been avoided. No Red China, no Korean and Vietnam police actions, no Cold War. Hundreds of millions of lives, untold wealth, and the destruction of our culture and society. No 9/11, GWOT or covidiocy either.
https://www.dcdave.com/article5/110530.htm
On December 7, 2021 at 3:07 am, Georgiaboy61 said:
Re: “It may not have been a popular opinion during the life of my one-time seminary professor, Dr. C. Gregg Singer, but he was convinced that the Pacific theater of the war was a totally unnecessary and wasteful mistake, and whatever differences we had with Japan could have been solved peacefully. Furthermore, he was convinced that the embargo was the catalyst for the attack on Pearl Harbor.”
There is no need for “conspiracy theories” regarding the attack upon Pearl Harbor, or the fact that President Roosevelt and his senior advisors knew that war with Japan was coming in the days, months and even years prior to the attack. It is a matter of historical record that relations between the two nations had been deteriorating for many years – at first slowly and imperceptibly – and then more-rapidly and obviously as December 1941 approached.
Although relations between the two nations were somewhat normal and cordial in the decades prior to the war – Japan had been on the Allied side during WWI in fact – there were also many sources of tension, disagreement and ultimately anger and alienation.
It is not possible to understand the Great Pacific War, as the Japanese call WWII in the Pacific and China-Burma-India theaters – without understanding Japan herself since the Meiji Restoration of 1868. Japan had been, prior to her “opening” by the U.S. and the West in 1853, a medieval and largely feudal society.
In the span of a remarkably short period of three decades from 1870 forward, she transformed herself into a modern, first-world industrial & technological power. As a feat of rapid modernization, it was almost unprecedented in history up to that time. It was a stupendous achievement, really, one not fully-appreciated in the West at the time.
Japan’s “coming out party,” geopolitically-speaking was her stunning victory in the Russo-Japanese War of 1905, whose culmination saw the great Admiral Heihachiro Togo – the Japanese “Horatio Nelson” – soundly defeat the naval forces of Imperial Russia at the Battle of Tsushima.
Having successfully modernized, Japan wanted to become a world power, a great imperial power – in emulation of the already-established powers such as Great Britain, France, Germany, Italy and the United States. Seeing the extent of the imperial possessions and colonies of these various nations in Africa, Asia and elsewhere, Japan sought to emulate their example.
Japan had already intervened in Korea by 1890, and formally occupied the peninsula from 1910 until the end of the Second World War in 1945. She also pushed into mainland China as early as the 1910s and 1920s, exploiting the internal unrest then occurring in that nation. And like the European imperial powers and the U.S., Japan had won the right to station her troops on Chinese soil in the aftermath of the Boxer Rebellion of 1900, whose treaty peace terms had imposed these terms on her militarily-defeated empress.
So, for forty years or so, all of the nations maintained military forces inside China. This was to prove a flash point between the newly-assertive Japanese Empire and her counterparts.
In 1915, Japanese prime minister Ōkuma Shigenobu issued the Twenty-One Demands, an ultimatum to the then-new republican government of China, which would have turned China into a de facto province of Japan. After an outcry within China and also among the western powers, Japan was forced to back down somewhat, but China was forced to accede to some of Tokyo’s demands, thereby increasing Japanese power and influence in her neighbor.
In 1931, Japan invaded Manchuria and established a puppet government there. In 1936, they did the same thing in Mongolia. Japan’s incursion into Manchuria occurred after the so-called Mukden Incident, which historians now know was a false-flag operation and not a genuine attack by China upon Japan.
Against the background of events in China and the Far East, relations between Japan and the U.S., seemingly reasonably normal on the surface, deteriorated such that by the 1910s, both nations were war-gaming naval scenarios with the other as the presumptive opponent. The U.S. called their war plan “Plan Orange,” Japan ultimately termed her strategy “Kantai Kessen,” which means “Decisive Battle Doctrine,” a strategy by which Japan would lure the U.S. Navy into a decisive battle at the time/place of Japan’s choosing.
Resentment between Japan and the West deteriorated greatly due to the tension over the 1922 Washington Naval Treaty terms. The Washington great-powers conference – also known as the “Five-Powers Treaty,” set naval tonnage and other criteria for the fleets of the respective nations, i.e., Britain, the U.S., France, Italy and Japan. Nationalist factions in Japan greatly-resented being accorded lesser treaty rights than the other powers, and these tensions were not abated in subsequent conferences – the London naval conferences of 1930 and 1936.
Japan ultimately broke with the treaty terms in secret at first, and later openly, as she constructed – amongst other things – the two largest battleships ever built, the Yamato and Musashi, each armed with nine 18-inch guns, as well as many other vessels.
On December 12, 1937, Japanese aircraft attacked and sank the U.S.S. Panay, a shallow-draft river gunboat & patrol vessel then operating on the Yangtze River, adjacent to Nanking. The Panay was there, as were the vessels of other nations, because the Japanese were sacking Nanking. The “Rape of Nanking” was an atrocity which ultimately claimed 300,000 lives, mostly civilians who were slain by rampaging Japanese army forces.
The incident nearly provoked war between the U.S. and Japan, but the crisis was averted when the Imperial government backed down and apologized to the U.S. and paid a cash indemnity.
During the decades before the war with the U.S. and the West beginning in 1941, Japanese society was torn by a series of attempted coups de etat, assassinations and other chaos and mayhem of various kinds, most of it caused by warring factions within the Japanese government and military. Hardliners wanted a more-aggressive and assertive Japan, whereas the moderates sought to maintain at least somewhat cordial relations with the West.
This ideological and political struggle broke down mostly along the lines of the Imperial Army and the Navy, but not entirely – with the former being the most-bellicose and the latter being the more-moderate influence.
The lynch-pin, the crux of the disagreement – was the fact that Japan, like Britain, was/is an island nation almost entirely devoid of the kind of natural resources needed by a modern technocratic society. She was almost totally reliant upon imports for her oil, tin, aluminum, iron ore (for steel), coal, and many other materials. She also imported a great deal of her food. Indeed the mountainous terrain of Japan, much of which is difficult to farm, was one of the drivers of Japan’s incursion into mainland Asia in the first place.
Perhaps most-significantly to the U.S.-Japan war looming on the horizon, was the fact that Japan purchased eighty percent of her oil from the U.S. during the 1930s.
When Germany invaded and conquered France and the Low Countries in the spring of 1940, Japan moved into French Indochina (now Vietnam).
Insofar as the U.S. and her senior leaders knew that Japan was dependent upon vast imported stocks of everything from oil to cotton fiber to rubber, and then President Roosevelt moved to embargo the sale of these items to Japan, he is responsible for pushing the Japanese from the edge of the precipice of war – and into it.
By fall, 1941, Britain had been at war with Germany for two years. The previous June, Operation Barbarossa saw Germany invade the Soviet Union. President Roosevelt had been cooperating with his “special friend,” Prime Minister Winston Churchill, via back-channel communiques and via personal messenger, from virtually the moment WSC took over from the disgraced Neville Chamberlain. Lend-Lease; establishing joint intelligence assets, such as the BSC (British Security Coordination); and many other measures. Roosevelt even had the U.S. Navy – in defiance of the rules of warfare governing the status of neutral powers – actively assisting the British/CW naval forces in the Battle of the Atlantic.
FDR and Churchill had already discussed a modus operandi between them, in the various conferences and clandestine meetings between members of their respective staffs.
Clearly, FDR believed that war was on the horizon, and was taking steps to prepare for it. Thanks to his discussions with Churchill, he knew that Britain needed help badly, and so did the USSR. Roosevelt’s problem, however, was that the American public, which still remembered WWI – was not anxious to involve itself in another European war. Tensions were higher in the Pacific, which is not what FDR or WSC wanted.
So, Roosevelt’s game-plan was to move the nation toward the war, and – knowing that the U.S. would probably be drawn into the war via the Pacific and not the Atlantic, so to speak, he probably planned to involve the nation in the war more-widely in some manner that would aid Britain. However, thanks to Adolf Hitler, he didn’t have to do that. Germany declared war on the United States at the same time the U.S. went to war with Japan.
Stinnett’s book is a provocative one, but in my view, he wastes too much time/effort exploring what is a moot point. FDR was determined to bring the U.S. into the war, come what may – and if it didn’t happen on December 7th 1941 against the Empire of Japan, then it would have happened some time and place else. The two nations were by then on a collision course and were bound to clash somewhere. And if not the U.S., then the Dutch, British, or the Australians would have been hit. Japan’s strategic oil reserve could last about twelve months, and she had to gain access to the petroleum in the Dutch East Indies, once FDR turned off sales from the U.S.
Most intelligence analysts believed that Japan would strike first in the Philippines; few analysts had Pearl Harbor as the focal point of their efforts on that day.
A final note, too, about 20-20 hindsight: From today’s perspective, we know the role that air power – in particular naval air power – played in the attack upon Pearl Harbor. But at that time, despite the efforts of visionaries like General Billy Mitchell of the U.S. Army Air Corps, anchorages like Pearl Harbor were considered highly-secure against aerial attack, whether by dive-bombing or torpedo planes.
The Japanese, however, seeing the success the Royal Navy had using torpedo planes to attack the Italian anchorage at Taranto in November, 1940 – successfully attacked and solved the technical challenges attendant to striking Pearl Harbor – and the rest is history.
And just to make sure everyone got the point, they sank the British battleship HMS Prince of Wales and battle-cruiser HMS Repulse on 10 December 1941, using naval aircraft, in the waters off eastern Malaya in the South China Sea.
On December 7, 2021 at 3:21 am, Georgiaboy61 said:
@ George
Re: “We had the Purple machine which deciphered the Japanese code. The furthest west that one of those machines was placed was Hawaii. None of the American installations further west had one.”
Do you see that as significant? I’m not sure that I do, but perhaps you have evidence that changes the picture.
The naval code-breaking establishment was headquartered in Hawaii, which had been made into our Pacific redoubt. It is standard intelligence practice that no intelligence officer and/or his codes, equipment, ciphers, etc. is to be placed or is to place himself in a position where he can be captured by the enemy. The breaking of the Japanese naval and diplomatic codes was then one of the most-guarded secrets of the war, and it makes sense that the armed services would go to extraordinary lengths to protect that secret.
Our other big base of operations was in the Philippines, but since virtually everyone in the U.S. intelligence community at the time believed that is where any Japanese attack would fall, they obviously weren’t going to risk it there. Wake, Midway, etc. were not significant-enough to merit risking the secret, either.
And when the Magic/Purple encryption-decryption system was finally put into place, it was limited to fewer than a hundred people, and only in places which were secure or relatively secure from Japanese invasion. And you didn’t get access to Magic intel unless someone very senior signed off on it.
On December 7, 2021 at 3:30 am, Georgiaboy61 said:
@ Herschel
Re: “Even now, I expect [and hope] that Japan amends its constitution to allow a more robust military. They’re going to need it against China.”
The Japanese have been concerned for some time now about the resurgence of the People’s Republic of China. Quite naturally, since they lie in such close proximity to the Asian mainland. And also, because memories are rather long in that part of the world.
For some years now, going back more than a decade, Japanese leaders have debated whether or not to renounce all or part of her post-war constitution, which prohibits rearming of the Japanese military except for strictly defensive purposes. Very quietly and discreetly, Japan has rearmed herself – and this has been done with the tacit approval of the U.S. Japan has also participated in a greater number of joint military training exercises with the U.S. and her other allies in the region.
The Japanese are a formidable opponent, and Beijing knows it. Consequently, Tokyo is an important check upon Beijing’s ambitions and bellicosity.
The million-dollar question remains: Do the Japanese have the atomic bomb? Either one or more of their own design, or purchased from the U.S.? Although they would be very unlikely to admit to such for public attribution, I believe the answer to be in the affirmative. Or, if they do not have them, they have the means and ability to manufacture them quickly. Including fissile material.
On December 7, 2021 at 7:00 am, George said:
And it should come as no surprise that FDR was eager to assist Stalin. He was always an admirer of Stalin, ceded way too much in the post-WWII order to the communists, and did so in spite of the objections of Churchill.
FDR did not survive WWll.
On December 7, 2021 at 7:52 am, Plague Monk said:
From some acquaintances that once upon a time worked for some Beltway Bandits, i.e “Think Tanks”, the consensus is that Japan is only a few turns of a screwdriver away from having a decent little collection of nuclear and thermonuclear toys. Not literal screwdrivers, of course, but that it would take very little time to get the devices operational.
I’ve done some military simulations on the side, and did one last year where Japan intervenes when Taiwan gets invaded. China drops a few nukes on Japan, and then, all hell breaks loose in China. At the end of the game, China no longer had an overpopulation problem, and their major cities and ports all glowed in even daylight.
Regarding Georgiaboy’s question, I suspect(but have no evidence) that Japan has developed their own devices, with a little help from US and British experts. We had Japanese citizens in American engineering colleges during the 70s, and these students were very…intense. While I was playing Dungeons and Dragons, getting sued by Gary Gygax over copyright issues, and such, these people were learning about the peaceful use of nuclear materials. Some of the professors worked on less peaceful uses of nuclear material during the 50s thru the early 70s. One of these guys had a really interesting patch collection, and displayed it in his office. He NEVER explained what most of the patches were for; only the ones that were common knowledge.
China is being very foolish in threatening to use nuclear weapons on Japan, or even South Korea. I have no doubt that the South Koreans have their own little shop of radioactive horrors, although I doubt they have more than a dozen or so. Just enough to deter the crazies to their north, keep Japanese warplanners awake at night, and give Chairman Xi some first class nightmares.
On December 7, 2021 at 9:17 am, Fred said:
I should mention that Japan has the second largest military, well trained and equipped. Last I heard they don’t have a bunch of sodomites, perverts, freaks, and womenz running around either. But as pointed out they lack offensive reach by their Constitution. Don’t mistake lack of reach for lack of serious abilities in and around their AOR. Attacking Japan would be very foolish.
On December 7, 2021 at 9:54 am, George 1 said:
Japan, and South Korea have to be observing what is happening in America and they are certainly making alternative plans. They must know that America is no longer a reliable ally.
On December 7, 2021 at 2:16 pm, scott s. said:
Looking out over Pearl Harbor today, it’s cold and rainy — would be tough to attack from the air on a day like this. They invited WWII vets over today (not just survivors, as there aren’t many of those left). My Dad is a WWII vet, but you have to show your vax pass to get into the ceremonies so it’s a no go.
I think FDR was a strategic thinker and did foresee the US replacing the UK as the world power. I don’t buy the conspiracy theories.
There’s some good videos on Y-T covering the salvage operations after the attack.
On December 7, 2021 at 3:10 pm, Herschel Smith said:
@scott s.,
I too have uncles who fought in the South Pacific.
It certainly isn’t a theory that FDR was a huge fan of Stalin. Those are his own words.
I also don’t think it’s a theory that the U.S. could have avoided the theater by stopping the embargo. Those are Japan’s words.
Finally, it’s not a theory that China would have been much weakened with a powerful Japan.
On December 8, 2021 at 3:00 am, Georgiaboy61 said:
@ George
Re: “And it should come as no surprise that FDR was eager to assist Stalin. He was always an admirer of Stalin, ceded way too much in the post-WWII order to the communists, and did so in spite of the objections of Churchill.”
The late W.E.B. Griffin, the famous author of reality-based military fiction, was also a tremendous historian – though he was not, as far as known, formally-trained in that field.
In one of his novels, he memorably discusses how Harry Truman’s response to Stalin and the communists differed from that of his predecessor, Franklin Delano Roosevelt. At one point, Griffin characterizes FDR’s view of Stalin as being “just one more troublesome Congressman or Senator whose cooperation and loyalty could be purchased for the price of a new highway or post-office in his district…”
Phrased differently, Stalin played FDR like a fiddle. Harry Truman – who had a much-more cynical and accurate view of the Soviet dictator – ended Lend-Lease aid to the USSR after becoming Commander-in-Chief and President, but not before the damage had been done. By 1945, Soviet agents had penetrated deep into the White House and Whitehall alike, in the U.S. and the U.K., respectively.
Amongst the other things FDR gave to them, via his lackadaisical mismanagement of Lend-Lease, were the plans to America’s then-new super-bomber, the Boeing B-29 “Super Fortress,” an aircraft developed at great cost and effort which was used to bomb the Japanese home islands from bases in the Pacific.
Ultimately, the Soviets stole the atomic bomb, too, thanks to the spy ring of the Rosenbergs, Klaus Fuchs, David Greenglass, Harry Gold and their collaborators and the Soviet penetration of the Manhattan Project. The details came out shortly after the Soviet announcement of a successful first atomic bomb test, in 1949.
In the U.K., the Cambridge Five spy ring was active from the 1930s to the 1950s, consisting of Kim Philby, Donald Maclean, Guy Burgess, Anthony Blunt, and John Cairncross.
Security was so lax in Britain after the war that the Soviets didn’t even have to steal the plans for the then new and revolutionary Rolls-Royce Nene jet engine. Rolls-Royce sold 55 of the engines to the USSR, and within a few short years, Russian-built MIG-15 fighters were being fielded against U.S. & UN forces in the Korean War. The Nene engine was the basis of the Klimov VK-1 power-plant which powered the MIG.