A .30-30 Is All You Need (If You Know How to Hunt)
BY Herschel Smith
1 year, 10 months ago
There is a 150-grain hunting bullet that at 100 yards will penetrate at least 23 inches and expand as much or more than either with similar bullets. Not only that, but it will do so while producing just 13 foot-pounds of recoil energy when fired from a 7-pound rifle. That’s 6 and 11 foot-pounds less than the .308 and .30/06, respectively. So, what is miracle cartridge? It’s the .30/30 Winchester.
How could the ancient .30/30 possibly outperform two 30-caliber cartridges that are considered by many to be the best big-game cartridges of all time? The answer is simpler than you might think. With conventional bullets, the higher velocities of the .308 and .30/06 cause more bullet erosion, which reduces weight, and in turn, penetration.
You might argue that the higher impact velocities of the latter tend to create more tissue damage. That’s true, and if sufficient penetration is reached by all three of these, the ones fired from the .308 and .30/06 might in fact put an animal down faster. But not any deader, and none of that is quantifiable. What really counts is penetration …
In his 1970s book, The Hunting Rifle, Jack O’Connor talked about an old hand he’d encountered who’d hunted Wyoming, Montana, and the Yukon, and typically took 17 or 18 elk with a single box (20 rounds) of .30/30 ammo. He told O’Connor that a moose, lung shot with a .30/30, would run about 75 to 100 yards and die. Well before that, African professional hunter Wally Johnson took a .30/30 Winchester to Africa and used it to kill lions. The effectiveness of the .30/30 Winchester on big game should never be questioned; it has more than a century of proof sanctioning it.
Given the untold numbers of deer taken with Winchester Model 94s and Marlin 336s over the last century, it should come as a bit of a shock that some of today’s younger hunters will ask: Is the .30/30 good for deer hunting? Um, yes. For decades and decades, it was consider the deer cartridge.
Right on. Preach it!
The normally reliable Ron Spomer did a recent video favorably comparing the 300 Blackout to the 30-30. It’s so wrong in my opinion that I’m not even linking it.
The 300 BO has a 125 grain bullet travelling at 2215 FPS. The box of 30-30 I’m looking at now shows a 150 grain bullet travelling at 2390 FPS. 25 grains and 175 FPS is enough difference to make a difference. Remember, the energy computation squares the velocity.
On December 16, 2022 at 12:36 am, Georgiaboy61 said:
@ H.S.
Reading this write-up of the ageless 30-30 and how effective it is, got me to thinking of another venerable but still effective cartridge our northern neighbors in Canada have used for many years to hunt medium and big game, namely the Lee-Enfield .303 (7.7x56mmR), which dates to 1891 in its smokeless powder variant.
Replaced as a military cartridge in the 1950s by 7.62x51mm NATO, the .303 remains one of the most-common cartridges to be found around the world, but in particular in the far reaches of the former British Empire.
The 174-grain HPBT load reaches ~ 2,500 fps for 2,408 lbs.-ft. of KE, while the lighter 150-grain SP load clocks in around 2,770 fps for 2,554 lbs.-ft. of kinetic energy. These figures, while superior to those of the 30-30, fall well-short of many cartridges considered to be more-modern. Yet, the people in Canada have used them for a very long time to take everything from white-tail deer to giant brown bears and grizzly bears.
And as a military cartridge, the .303 British has long been considered obsolescent, but the Afghan tribesmen using those old bolt guns didn’t seem to care about that when they fought Soviet and other invaders to a standstill in the Hindu Kush.
Just because it is old, does not mean it is in any way ineffective.
On December 16, 2022 at 5:48 am, jrg said:
I remember reading that because the 30-30 bullet has a medium speed velocity shot at a maximum medium range, the bullet doesn’t have to perform miracles like higher power bullets are expected to do. Expecting a spire tipped bullet to hold together when hitting animal at 2900 fps at 100 yards AND reliably expanding at the 2200 fps at 300 yards is a tall order to fill. The generously exposed tip of the 30-30 round is almost expressly made to be shot at medium ranges, where a lot of deer are killed.
On December 16, 2022 at 8:10 am, Nosmo said:
I am most certainly not suggesting that it be done now, but I’ve occasionally wondered, given just how effective the .30-30 is at moderate distances on moderately-sized game, why no one created a rimless version of the .30-30. Not that rimmed cartridges cannot be used in non-manually operated firearms – the British .303 is a good example – but a 3-5 round semi-auto in a rimless .30-30 would seem to be a reasonable tool.
Then again, given how efficient long-existing firearms in .30-30 are, it’s quite probably an answer to a question that it was not necessary to ask.
On December 16, 2022 at 9:47 am, Frank Clarke said:
I still curse the day I sold my 94 because we had moved to the suburbs and no longer needed a home protection firearm.
On December 16, 2022 at 9:55 am, BRVTVS said:
@Nosmo
There was a rimless 30-30, the 30 Remington, which was used in the Remington models 8 & 14. So far as I know, the only survivor from that lineup of Remington rimless cartidges is the 35 Remington.
On December 16, 2022 at 10:27 am, George said:
I used my father’s Model 94 in 30-30 to kill many a deer when I was a youth.
It was light and quick to handle. My dad would give me 4 cartridges and tell me bring in 4 deer. (Texas back in the day.) Almost all of my kills were less than 100 yards. I think my furthest shot was 125 yards.
I no longer hunt, but I would not hesitate to take the 30-30 into the game field these days.
On December 16, 2022 at 10:33 am, Houston said:
IF you don’t have a Winchester or Marlin in 30-30 but want to duplicate the short to mid range effect using 30-30 bullets AND you have a 308 Win AND you reload I bet you can load up some 308 Win with similar ballistics to use in a lightweight bolt gun that would be accurate and mild to shoot to get the same effect. It all depends on your hunting situation, right? Food for thought. I like 30-30 too but shoot more 308 and I reload. Some of my most accurate loads are 200-220 grain pills at 2000FPS. I might have to throw together some 150s at 2300 to see what they do.
On December 16, 2022 at 10:04 pm, Bill said:
Anyone play around with 300 Ham’r and have thoughts? AR-15 magazine length (and no new bolt face required, I believe), seems very close to .30-30 external ballistics, less powder?
https://www.wilsoncombat.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/300-HAMR-LOAD-DATA-3-22.pdf
On December 17, 2022 at 7:53 am, Latigo Morgan said:
Ron Spomer has a more recent video comparing 30-30 and 350 Legend. He pretty much concludes they are close to equivalent in performance except for platforms they can be used on.
On December 17, 2022 at 4:23 pm, Doug said:
An interesting read for those who like to tinker and reload:
https://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/3030again.htm
Paco Kelly was getting 2,877fps from a modified 30-30 shooting 130gr Speer Flatpoints.
On December 18, 2022 at 7:20 am, Dave said:
I’ve been hunting since the age of 14, and have killed many deer. Most have been with my trusty old Sears & Roebuck 30-30. If I’m hunting where my shots will be inside 100 yds, that the gun that comes with me.
On December 18, 2022 at 10:06 am, X said:
I recently inherited a .30-30 and while it’s a fun cartridge, it does have limits. I haven’t scored any kills with it yet because my .308 and my ’06 bolt guns are simply better. The bolt-actions are the same weight or lighter, but I can confidently make kills at 200-250 yards with them, which is about as far as I can generally shoot in my area. With the .30-30 in had I am forced to take distance into account, generally with a 100-yard limit.
Also my lightweight .308 stainless synthetic is weatherproof, whereas I would hate to get a blued and walnut 1950s vintage Marlin soaking wet.
You can always handload a .308 or an ’06 down to .30-30 ballistics and recoil if you want, and you can use round-nose .30-30 bullets.
But you can’t upload a .30-30 to .30-06 performance.
On December 18, 2022 at 10:41 am, Ned said:
If one loads 100-125 grain tops in a 30-30, the velocity is way more than one can obtain with a 300BO. I load 100 – 110 grain plinkers and get over 2700 fps out of a 30-30, with extremely low recoil and accurate in every rifle we’ve used them in from Marlins to Winchesters. They hit like a laser out to 100 yards.
110 grain short jacket loads in a 30-30 would be a good anti-personnel round very fast for second round targeting, fast expanding with low over-penetration potential.
I have a 300BO and like it – but it’s no 30-30, and not even ballistically equal to a 7.62×39. It’s just typically loaded with better tops in factory loads.
A 300BO might barely make 2000 FPS with 150gr tops. Not even close to a 30-30.
On December 19, 2022 at 6:15 pm, Saml Adams said:
When I still hunted used a Ruger M-77 RSI with a 1.5-5x Leupold. Handy little package. But several years ago, on a whim, bought a Savage 1899 Takedown in .30-30 and fell in love with the cartridge. So much that recently added a Henry. Hand load them down to about 1600-1700 with cast gas checked 170 grain bullets. Fun and soft to shoot and have used as a first step up for new shooters from a .22.