The Captain's Journal » .45 ACP Ammo Questions

.45 ACP Ammo Questions

BY PGF

1 year, 7 months ago

Found on social, here is the initial question:

I have a question about 45 ACP ammunition.

It appears to me that there are two weight classes of ammo: 230 and 185 grain. Why is this and what’s the correct weight to pick for a self defense and training? I will be shooting using a 5″ barrel 1911.

Thanks for your comments.

The answers were shallow, so the asker rephrased them in a way you might find interesting to discuss:

I think the question I have is two part (1) defensive ballistics and (2) training.

Defensive Ballistics:
Are the heavier or lighter rounds better with regards to hollow point bullets? Do people pick light bullets because they travel faster allowing better expansion? Does this matter, i.e., do both weights expand the same? I kind of like the idea of a heavier round that may impart higher energy to the target. What is the trade off between weight, velocity, energy, and expansion? Because there seem to be either heavy or light bullets, is the decision already clearly made?

Training:
When I purchase my 9mm ammo, I picked an carry round and training round that were identical weight and rated velocity. My assumption was that I would train using the cheaper ammo and carry the expensive ammo, but the feel of the shot would be the same. I was told by someone that carries 1911 that, “I train with 230 grain and carry 185 grain.” This makes no sense to me since I imagine that the two will have very different feel. Am I wrong?

Thanks,

Well, I train with 230 and carry 185, so maybe I’m wrong. I’m interested in feedback as well. Frankly, 230 JHP is expensive and often difficult to find because, I think, police departments are always buying it. His questions are excellent.

Ammunition Tags: .45 ACP —

Comments

On May 9, 2023 at 11:08 pm, Phillip Bromley said:

The FBI standards for calibrated 10% ballistic gelatin penetration are, despite being a government standard, a decent rule to go by. The main thing is, use whatever bullet weight is necessary to achieve the required penetration (this can vary with the design of the bullet itself, not just it’s mass).

As an aside, I tend to lean towards the heavy-for-caliber end of the scale. This is because a 230gr HP will have more retained mass if it expands after punching through an intermediate barrier such as drywall/stud, car door, glass, etc. That extra mass makes more difference when the integrity of the bullet is compromised before actually hitting your target.

On May 10, 2023 at 12:09 am, stolen valor said:

I recommend you train with the same ammo you would carry. On top of recoil and feel not changing, point of impact does not change. Most importantly, feeding and reliability are at a maximum, using the same ammo. Same wear on the recoil spring, same impulse and harmonics. Same wear on the feed ramp.

Don’t be a cheap bastard. Invest in quality ammo. Train and carry with it. Save money on something else, for instance, not spending hundreds every month on queer bait.

Train like a pro. You deserve it.

On May 10, 2023 at 3:25 am, The Man With No Name said:

Insert magazine, retract slide, if the chamber is now loaded, you should be fine.
Smaller weights may have faster ballistics but the stopping power won’t be there and some guns need a heavy round to keep the slide moving.
Expanded slugs knifed from fence post revealed 25 cent size for .45 and dime size for 9mm.
A big name ammo with a silver point that shall remain nameless didn’t expand every time but there were some with gnarly flattened warps even larger than a quarter coin.
Nameless because one blew up a .40 cal and ruptured barrel at cold unheated indoor range.

On May 10, 2023 at 6:13 am, Henry Heth said:

When I target shoot it’s 230gr FMJ. I like a fast hollowpoint for self-defense. I carry the Wilson Combat 200gr +P JHP at around 1000fps. A 185gr JHP is also a good load (fast)
For me a 230gr JHP is a bit too slow. For hollowpoints I think speed is the key. I’m also partial to the Hornady Critical Defense loads (185gr)
All carried in a G30 or G21.
In the Virginia mountains its the G21 with 230gr FMJ.
I enjoy the blog – have a great day
HH

On May 10, 2023 at 6:26 am, Old Bill in TN said:

I was trained on 1911s, and have owned several. My carry gun is a Glock-30. So for my own purposes I’ve been down this road of 45ACP ammo selection.
Luck Gunner’s testing is invaluable for this discussion.
Ultimately, I chose 230gn loads for my carry ammo partly because that was what I am used to shooting, and partly to gain the extra mass to impart more energy into the target.
Choosing a 230gn load that expands reliably is simplicity itself with LG’s testing. It did cause me to switch what I use however; until I found their excellent work I’d been using 230gn Hydra-shoks. These showed inconsistent results in LG’s testing, so I switched to 230gn HSTs which gave excellent consistency in their testing.
That is MY experience. I would say that 185gn loads would be fine for carry purposes (terminal performance) though I have not studied any testing. More important by far, I would say, is what you are comfortable and competent shooting under stress: a well placed 185gn hit will solve problems a 230gn graze will merely aggravate.
Whatever your choice, take advantage of Lucky Gunners extensive testing to ensure your ammo expands consistently.
As always: just my opinion, YMMV.

On May 10, 2023 at 7:17 am, Joe Blow said:

I too strive for same bullet in training vs carry ammunition for my 9mm. 124gr speer lawnman round nose for practice and gold dots for carry.
Luckygunner.com did an excellent test several years ago w/all manner of weight, brand, etc. and gel block expansion and penetration tests. Really comprehensive. Their results are why I carry 124 gr 9mms, not 115s or 145 grns. See what their testing shows on .45 ACP.

On May 10, 2023 at 8:30 am, Paul B said:

There is some thought about training with what you fight with, but not sure about this. When the adrenalin dumps you will not even notice recoil. so what you can shoot accurately is better that big.

I think there is a sweet spot for bullet weight and JHP style. Some where above 160 grains seems to break up nicely when in tissue. I base that on what I have found in Deer bodies over the years.

On May 10, 2023 at 8:48 am, Aaron said:

Velocity is far more important than mass when computing energy. If you compare a 230 grain bullet with a velocity of 900 fps to a 185 grain bullet with a velocity of 1350 fps, the mass of the Leiter bullet reduces the energy by 20%, but the velocity increases it by 125%. Taken together the lighter, faster bullet nearly doubles the energy.

Of course the difference between your practice and carry ammunition may not be so severe, but regardless of your choice for practice, I recommend that you run through a box or two of your carry ammunition so that you know how it behaves too.

On May 10, 2023 at 9:55 am, Thomas said:

Luckygunner dot com has their ballistic testing up showing results from different loads. I don’t shoot .45 at the moment, so I have no dog in that fight.

As for training v carry ammo, I train with an ammo that has a consistent point of aim and point of impact as my carry ammo. I found that training ammo by trial and error.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/

On May 10, 2023 at 10:30 am, Frank Clarke said:

The energy of any bullet is limited by the powder charge. Any unburned powder after the slug leaves the barrel is wasted. A lighter slug is more likely to leave unburned powder behind. Therefore, a heavy slug is more likely to carry a larger energy load.

Ceteris paribus, a lighter slug will have higher muzzle velocity because it accelerates faster down the barrel. It will arrive earlier (but not so much that it will be noticeable) and penetrate the target at a higher velocity. Because of its higher velocity, it will spend less time inside the target, and could exit the back of the target. Any energy still carried by a slug when it exits the target is wasted. A heavier slug seems more likely to deliver its entire energy load within the target.

Therefore, always throw the heaviest slug you can manage.

On May 10, 2023 at 11:44 am, Mike said:

OK, standing by for incoming snarky comments…..;-)

I have never had consistent expansion with any weight bullet in my 3 inch barreled 45……so I shoot 200gr SWC. I don’t have to worry about the hollow point being stuffed with material turning it into the worst SD ammo available for a 45, the round nose ball. Plus, my Springfield is an absolute tack driver with the wadcutters…

On May 10, 2023 at 1:15 pm, =TW= said:

I have previously commented on this topic.
Why not:
https://www.speer.com/ammunition/lawman/lawman_handgun_training/19-53654.html
Or SWC at similar velocity?

On May 10, 2023 at 4:03 pm, =TW= said:

Thomas- Thanks for linking that LG article

On May 10, 2023 at 4:22 pm, Longbow said:

Phillip Bromley said,

“I tend to lean towards the heavy-for-caliber end of the scale.”

I do also. I shoot what makes a bigger hole, and the projectile should be the heaviest I can use and still achieve potent velocity.

Jeff Cooper defined “knockdown power” as momentum. Mass carries more momentum.

Lastly, if I’m in the woods, like back in the Bob, and if I have to shoot a big toothy critter, I want to penetrate end to end on the animal and break bones on the way through.

If facing a two legged varmint, two or three shots center of mass should work with just about any caliber carried (excepting of course, the varmint is on something like PCP… then its eye sockets).

On May 10, 2023 at 8:57 pm, Eric said:

It is possible a lighter bullet has better expansion than a heavier bullet if you use a short barrell.
So 185grain may have been designed for that.
Paul Harrell would ask is there enough difference to make a difference in the two bullet weights.
Is bullet drop a factor between a 230grain at 800 fps vs a 185 grain at 1000fps if the target is 7 yards away? 25 yards?
Does your gun have same point of impact with each load if you use the same sight picture?
Match the ammo to your mission.

On May 11, 2023 at 1:34 am, Georgiaboy61 said:

Any decent trauma surgeon or combat medic/corpsman will tell you that if medical attention is prompt and competent, the victim of a handgun wound has an 80-85% chance of survival. Because most handgun projectiles do not attain sufficient velocity to create much of a shock-wave/temporary wound cavity, handgun bullets are lethal insofar as they create permanent wound tracks or cavities which cause potentially fatal damage to internal organs and structures, as well as “bleeding out,” i.e., a fatal hemorrhage.

Typically, handgun rounds achieve their terminal ballistic effects via two somewhat opposed but complimentary mechanisms of action: penetration and expansion of the projectile. Penetration being the ability of the slug to penetrate deeply into the vital organs and structures and perhaps completely through the target; expansion being the increase in cross-sectional size of the hollow-point or expanding nose of the bullet or projectile, which serves to create a larger diameter wound track.

Most handgun ammunition manufacturers devote a considerable amount of time and effort to designing different classes of projectiles to serve various shooting needs, from training and competition to self-defense and hunting. In other words, what type/design of ammunition one selects ought to be done on the basis of the task being accomplished.

Back in the early 1900s when John M. Browning was designing his M1911 pistol and its .45-caliber load, he was limited to jacketed (FMJ)/Ball ammo, since the Geneva and Hague Conventions to which to U.S. armed forces adhered, prohibited for “humanitarian reasons” the use of expanding or HP bullets.

Browning therefore designed the standard service load of a 230-grain FMJ round for the M1911, with those restrictions in mind. The caliber was set since the U.S. government had requested that the new service handgun be of .45-caliber. One of Browning’s key insights was that high-velocity pistol rounds of the time often penetrated through their targets rather than depositing most of their kinetic energy within them.

He designed his 230-grain “Ball” round to be a big, blunt, bulldozer of a slug, one which would create a large wound channel and had the potential to break the bones it encountered rather than simply holing them, bouncing off of them or shattering against them.

Browning’s design worked brilliantly, and the M1911 pistol and its famous 230-gr. slug went on to become legends.

Today, some modern-day advocates of the M1911 – such as Clint Smith – use FMJ/Ball exclusively for personal defense, since that is what the M1911 was designed to use and historically, many HP/expanding designs do not have a 100% rate of success in terms of feeding reliably.

Smith’s opinion may have been colored by the somewhat lackluster performance of older HP designs from thirty years ago or more, which sometimes did not open reliably or having opened, became clogged with clothing or other extraneous debris and did not function properly thereafter.

Much is made of kinetic energy measurements when choosing self-defense loads. This is not per se a bad idea, but there is more to the performance of a cartridge than just the number of Joules or foot-pounds of energy it produces.

Shot placement is paramount when using a handgun for self-defense, because even more so than with shotguns or center-fire rifles, stopping an aggressive assailant with a handgun means making solid center-mass hits and subsequent damage to internal structures and organs. It also means choosing a high-performance bullet made by a reputable manufacturer.

Last but not least, it means nothing to shoot the heaviest or highest-velocity load possible if you can’t obtain hits with that load when it counts. Whatever load you choose, you’d better be able to hit well with it, or you are liable to be disappointed with the results you obtain.

I can’t vouch for the information being confirmed scientifically by the FBI or the like, but I have heard in various places that a semi-wadcutter or other blunt-nosed bullet inflicts more tissue damage than a round-nosed load, where the 45ACP is concerned.

One final point: If you plan to carry a M1911 or other handgun which uses .45 Auto/ACP ammo, use factory loads for EDC and not hand-loads. The use of handl-oads is frowned upon by many FA trainers and legal experts in criminal and FA law, as such use opens you up to all sorts of legal entanglements that you just don’t need.

Virtually all mainstream ammo makers these days have customer and tech support services, should you have any concerns or questions regarding how to pick the best load for your particular application. If you can’t decide, you might consider soliciting their aid. After all, making ammunition is what they do for a living, and they know -or darned well should know – more about their products than anyone else.

On May 11, 2023 at 3:02 pm, =TW= said:

To what Georgiaboy61 ^^ said I’ll add-

Momentum may be more effective than kinetic energy.
Light projectiles at high velocity can cause bullet fragmentation & under-penetration. Light, monolithic copper bullets are likely to over-penetrate. (We can discuss hydrostatic shock later…)
A heavy for caliber bullet at sufficient velocity to achieve adequate penetration will deliver maximum energy to the target.

Which brings us to bullet construction.
A glance at the photos at the LG charts linked show numerous HP bullets which failed to expand. (Those apparently penetrated more deeply, regardless of velocity.)
Ball ammunition is unlikely to fragment, and has sufficient weight to transfer energy. (However, the round-nose profile is not designed for tissue disruption.)

I suggest SWC or RNFP bullets as a viable option- providing penetration, energy transfer, tissue disruption at least comparable to failed hollow points.

On May 11, 2023 at 10:25 pm, Georgiaboy61 said:

@ TW

Re: “I suggest SWC or RNFP bullets as a viable option- providing penetration, energy transfer, tissue disruption at least comparable to failed hollow points.”

Agreed, and well-said….

On May 9, 2023 at 11:08 pm, Phillip Bromley said:

The FBI standards for calibrated 10% ballistic gelatin penetration are, despite being a government standard, a decent rule to go by. The main thing is, use whatever bullet weight is necessary to achieve the required penetration (this can vary with the design of the bullet itself, not just it’s mass).

As an aside, I tend to lean towards the heavy-for-caliber end of the scale. This is because a 230gr HP will have more retained mass if it expands after punching through an intermediate barrier such as drywall/stud, car door, glass, etc. That extra mass makes more difference when the integrity of the bullet is compromised before actually hitting your target.
On May 10, 2023 at 12:09 am, stolen valor said:

I recommend you train with the same ammo you would carry. On top of recoil and feel not changing, point of impact does not change. Most importantly, feeding and reliability are at a maximum, using the same ammo. Same wear on the recoil spring, same impulse and harmonics. Same wear on the feed ramp.

Don’t be a cheap bastard. Invest in quality ammo. Train and carry with it. Save money on something else, for instance, not spending hundreds every month on queer bait.

Train like a pro. You deserve it.
On May 10, 2023 at 3:25 am, The Man With No Name said:

Insert magazine, retract slide, if the chamber is now loaded, you should be fine.
Smaller weights may have faster ballistics but the stopping power won’t be there and some guns need a heavy round to keep the slide moving.
Expanded slugs knifed from fence post revealed 25 cent size for .45 and dime size for 9mm.
A big name ammo with a silver point that shall remain nameless didn’t expand every time but there were some with gnarly flattened warps even larger than a quarter coin.
Nameless because one blew up a .40 cal and ruptured barrel at cold unheated indoor range.
On May 10, 2023 at 6:13 am, Henry Heth said:

When I target shoot it’s 230gr FMJ. I like a fast hollowpoint for self-defense. I carry the Wilson Combat 200gr +P JHP at around 1000fps. A 185gr JHP is also a good load (fast)
For me a 230gr JHP is a bit too slow. For hollowpoints I think speed is the key. I’m also partial to the Hornady Critical Defense loads (185gr)
All carried in a G30 or G21.
In the Virginia mountains its the G21 with 230gr FMJ.
I enjoy the blog – have a great day
HH
On May 10, 2023 at 6:26 am, Old Bill in TN said:

I was trained on 1911s, and have owned several. My carry gun is a Glock-30. So for my own purposes I’ve been down this road of 45ACP ammo selection.
Luck Gunner’s testing is invaluable for this discussion.
Ultimately, I chose 230gn loads for my carry ammo partly because that was what I am used to shooting, and partly to gain the extra mass to impart more energy into the target.
Choosing a 230gn load that expands reliably is simplicity itself with LG’s testing. It did cause me to switch what I use however; until I found their excellent work I’d been using 230gn Hydra-shoks. These showed inconsistent results in LG’s testing, so I switched to 230gn HSTs which gave excellent consistency in their testing.
That is MY experience. I would say that 185gn loads would be fine for carry purposes (terminal performance) though I have not studied any testing. More important by far, I would say, is what you are comfortable and competent shooting under stress: a well placed 185gn hit will solve problems a 230gn graze will merely aggravate.
Whatever your choice, take advantage of Lucky Gunners extensive testing to ensure your ammo expands consistently.
As always: just my opinion, YMMV.
On May 10, 2023 at 7:17 am, Joe Blow said:

I too strive for same bullet in training vs carry ammunition for my 9mm. 124gr speer lawnman round nose for practice and gold dots for carry.
Luckygunner.com did an excellent test several years ago w/all manner of weight, brand, etc. and gel block expansion and penetration tests. Really comprehensive. Their results are why I carry 124 gr 9mms, not 115s or 145 grns. See what their testing shows on .45 ACP.
On May 10, 2023 at 8:30 am, Paul B said:

There is some thought about training with what you fight with, but not sure about this. When the adrenalin dumps you will not even notice recoil. so what you can shoot accurately is better that big.

I think there is a sweet spot for bullet weight and JHP style. Some where above 160 grains seems to break up nicely when in tissue. I base that on what I have found in Deer bodies over the years.
On May 10, 2023 at 8:48 am, Aaron said:

Velocity is far more important than mass when computing energy. If you compare a 230 grain bullet with a velocity of 900 fps to a 185 grain bullet with a velocity of 1350 fps, the mass of the Leiter bullet reduces the energy by 20%, but the velocity increases it by 125%. Taken together the lighter, faster bullet nearly doubles the energy.

Of course the difference between your practice and carry ammunition may not be so severe, but regardless of your choice for practice, I recommend that you run through a box or two of your carry ammunition so that you know how it behaves too.
On May 10, 2023 at 9:55 am, Thomas said:

Luckygunner dot com has their ballistic testing up showing results from different loads. I don’t shoot .45 at the moment, so I have no dog in that fight.

As for training v carry ammo, I train with an ammo that has a consistent point of aim and point of impact as my carry ammo. I found that training ammo by trial and error.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
On May 10, 2023 at 10:30 am, Frank Clarke said:

The energy of any bullet is limited by the powder charge. Any unburned powder after the slug leaves the barrel is wasted. A lighter slug is more likely to leave unburned powder behind. Therefore, a heavy slug is more likely to carry a larger energy load.

Ceteris paribus, a lighter slug will have higher muzzle velocity because it accelerates faster down the barrel. It will arrive earlier (but not so much that it will be noticeable) and penetrate the target at a higher velocity. Because of its higher velocity, it will spend less time inside the target, and could exit the back of the target. Any energy still carried by a slug when it exits the target is wasted. A heavier slug seems more likely to deliver its entire energy load within the target.

Therefore, always throw the heaviest slug you can manage.
On May 10, 2023 at 11:44 am, Mike said:

OK, standing by for incoming snarky comments…..;-)

I have never had consistent expansion with any weight bullet in my 3 inch barreled 45……so I shoot 200gr SWC. I don’t have to worry about the hollow point being stuffed with material turning it into the worst SD ammo available for a 45, the round nose ball. Plus, my Springfield is an absolute tack driver with the wadcutters…
On May 10, 2023 at 1:15 pm, =TW= said:

I have previously commented on this topic.
Why not:
https://www.speer.com/ammunition/lawman/lawman_handgun_training/19-53654.html
Or SWC at similar velocity?
On May 10, 2023 at 4:03 pm, =TW= said:

Thomas- Thanks for linking that LG article
On May 10, 2023 at 4:22 pm, Longbow said:

Phillip Bromley said,

“I tend to lean towards the heavy-for-caliber end of the scale.”

I do also. I shoot what makes a bigger hole, and the projectile should be the heaviest I can use and still achieve potent velocity.

Jeff Cooper defined “knockdown power” as momentum. Mass carries more momentum.

Lastly, if I’m in the woods, like back in the Bob, and if I have to shoot a big toothy critter, I want to penetrate end to end on the animal and break bones on the way through.

If facing a two legged varmint, two or three shots center of mass should work with just about any caliber carried (excepting of course, the varmint is on something like PCP… then its eye sockets).
On May 10, 2023 at 8:57 pm, Eric said:

It is possible a lighter bullet has better expansion than a heavier bullet if you use a short barrell.
So 185grain may have been designed for that.
Paul Harrell would ask is there enough difference to make a difference in the two bullet weights.
Is bullet drop a factor between a 230grain at 800 fps vs a 185 grain at 1000fps if the target is 7 yards away? 25 yards?
Does your gun have same point of impact with each load if you use the same sight picture?
Match the ammo to your mission.
On May 11, 2023 at 1:34 am, Georgiaboy61 said:

Any decent trauma surgeon or combat medic/corpsman will tell you that if medical attention is prompt and competent, the victim of a handgun wound has an 80-85% chance of survival. Because most handgun projectiles do not attain sufficient velocity to create much of a shock-wave/temporary wound cavity, handgun bullets are lethal insofar as they create permanent wound tracks or cavities which cause potentially fatal damage to internal organs and structures, as well as “bleeding out,” i.e., a fatal hemorrhage.

Typically, handgun rounds achieve their terminal ballistic effects via two somewhat opposed but complimentary mechanisms of action: penetration and expansion of the projectile. Penetration being the ability of the slug to penetrate deeply into the vital organs and structures and perhaps completely through the target; expansion being the increase in cross-sectional size of the hollow-point or expanding nose of the bullet or projectile, which serves to create a larger diameter wound track.

Most handgun ammunition manufacturers devote a considerable amount of time and effort to designing different classes of projectiles to serve various shooting needs, from training and competition to self-defense and hunting. In other words, what type/design of ammunition one selects ought to be done on the basis of the task being accomplished.

Back in the early 1900s when John M. Browning was designing his M1911 pistol and its .45-caliber load, he was limited to jacketed (FMJ)/Ball ammo, since the Geneva and Hague Conventions to which to U.S. armed forces adhered, prohibited for “humanitarian reasons” the use of expanding or HP bullets.

Browning therefore designed the standard service load of a 230-grain FMJ round for the M1911, with those restrictions in mind. The caliber was set since the U.S. government had requested that the new service handgun be of .45-caliber. One of Browning’s key insights was that high-velocity pistol rounds of the time often penetrated through their targets rather than depositing most of their kinetic energy within them.

He designed his 230-grain “Ball” round to be a big, blunt, bulldozer of a slug, one which would create a large wound channel and had the potential to break the bones it encountered rather than simply holing them, bouncing off of them or shattering against them.

Browning’s design worked brilliantly, and the M1911 pistol and its famous 230-gr. slug went on to become legends.

Today, some modern-day advocates of the M1911 – such as Clint Smith – use FMJ/Ball exclusively for personal defense, since that is what the M1911 was designed to use and historically, many HP/expanding designs do not have a 100% rate of success in terms of feeding reliably.

Smith’s opinion may have been colored by the somewhat lackluster performance of older HP designs from thirty years ago or more, which sometimes did not open reliably or having opened, became clogged with clothing or other extraneous debris and did not function properly thereafter.

Much is made of kinetic energy measurements when choosing self-defense loads. This is not per se a bad idea, but there is more to the performance of a cartridge than just the number of Joules or foot-pounds of energy it produces.

Shot placement is paramount when using a handgun for self-defense, because even more so than with shotguns or center-fire rifles, stopping an aggressive assailant with a handgun means making solid center-mass hits and subsequent damage to internal structures and organs. It also means choosing a high-performance bullet made by a reputable manufacturer.

Last but not least, it means nothing to shoot the heaviest or highest-velocity load possible if you can’t obtain hits with that load when it counts. Whatever load you choose, you’d better be able to hit well with it, or you are liable to be disappointed with the results you obtain.

I can’t vouch for the information being confirmed scientifically by the FBI or the like, but I have heard in various places that a semi-wadcutter or other blunt-nosed bullet inflicts more tissue damage than a round-nosed load, where the 45ACP is concerned.

One final point: If you plan to carry a M1911 or other handgun which uses .45 Auto/ACP ammo, use factory loads for EDC and not hand-loads. The use of handl-oads is frowned upon by many FA trainers and legal experts in criminal and FA law, as such use opens you up to all sorts of legal entanglements that you just don’t need.

Virtually all mainstream ammo makers these days have customer and tech support services, should you have any concerns or questions regarding how to pick the best load for your particular application. If you can’t decide, you might consider soliciting their aid. After all, making ammunition is what they do for a living, and they know -or darned well should know – more about their products than anyone else.
On May 11, 2023 at 3:02 pm, =TW= said:

To what Georgiaboy61 ^^ said I’ll add-

Momentum may be more effective than kinetic energy.
Light projectiles at high velocity can cause bullet fragmentation & under-penetration. Light, monolithic copper bullets are likely to over-penetrate. (We can discuss hydrostatic shock later…)
A heavy for caliber bullet at sufficient velocity to achieve adequate penetration will deliver maximum energy to the target.

Which brings us to bullet construction.
A glance at the photos at the LG charts linked show numerous HP bullets which failed to expand. (Those apparently penetrated more deeply, regardless of velocity.)
Ball ammunition is unlikely to fragment, and has sufficient weight to transfer energy. (However, the round-nose profile is not designed for tissue disruption.)

I suggest SWC or RNFP bullets as a viable option- providing penetration, energy transfer, tissue disruption at least comparable to failed hollow points.
On May 11, 2023 at 10:25 pm, Georgiaboy61 said:

@ TW

Re: “I suggest SWC or RNFP bullets as a viable option- providing penetration, energy transfer, tissue disruption at least comparable to failed hollow points.”

Agreed, and well-said….

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