The Captain's Journal » ATF SWAT Team Raids FFL’s Home

ATF SWAT Team Raids FFL’s Home

BY Herschel Smith

1 year, 5 months ago

Liberty Doll has the details along with some commentary.

Here is also a writeup of what happened. What you heard about the SWAT team berating the man, a pastor, husband and teacher, a normal man by any account, is exactly what these people are like. These people are not the exception, a few bad apples in an otherwise good bushel of apples. No, they are all bad. They want to violate your constitutional rights. They live for it. They are sociopathic criminals.

Imagine being employed by the ATF and being able to look at your wife and children when you get home and look yourself in the mirror at night and be able to fall asleep with no trouble. Imagine having your conscience hardened and soul seared with hot coals to the degree these people have. I hope this fate doesn’t befall anyone reading this.

As for ATF Special Agent Theodore Mongell sending several SWAT teams to knock on someone’s door, I know little girls with more courage than that.

BATFE,Gun Control

Comments

On July 16, 2023 at 11:21 pm, Dan said:

Once again we see the Federal Bureaucracy being used by the criminal left to achieve an illegal and unconstitutional goal. If they are having difficulty in getting guns out of the hands of Americans they will attack the source we get them from. This will continue to happen and will expand as long as the criminal communist left is in power. And they have NO intentions on relinquishing that grasp on power…EVER.

On July 17, 2023 at 1:58 am, this ain't no picnic said:

A local was raided for an ad hoc gun & gunsmith shop in a semi trailer parked in the back yard, he did have a federal firearms license.
He had no criminal record and was a friend of nearby town/county LEO’s or it would have been a disaster for him.
Still, a hefty fine, no more FFL, some jail time and a blemish on the record.

On July 17, 2023 at 4:17 am, scott s. said:

Using your home as your licensed location is probably not the best idea. Since Clinton ATF has been revoking licenses if you don’t have a business location that is in an allowed zoning and not keeping regular hours.

There’s 3 times where ATF can inspect your bound book and licensed location: annual, trace, and probable cause. I would not recommend keeping personal firearms anywhere near your inventory. The inspection people are different from the enforcement, and any thing an inspector tells you is meaningless to enforcement.

BITD knew plenty of folks with “table top” dealer FFLs, if for no other reason than FFLs got special pricing for most stuff. I don’t have experience with entity FFLs, but suspect it is much better to have an LLC hold a license.

On July 17, 2023 at 8:22 am, Herschel Smith said:

@scott,

Well, much of that is beside the point. The point is the behavior of the ATF, and I know FFLs who mainly work out of their home and have weapons well-secured. It’s legal, and it shouldn’t draw any more attention than an FFL who has a store front.

On July 17, 2023 at 8:56 am, PGF said:

It shouldn’t draw any more attention than a child’s lemonade stand. Oh, wait, cops will shut those down too, and fine the family.

On July 17, 2023 at 1:51 pm, streamfortyseven said:

When he said “come right over”, he gave consent to the search, and screwed himself. He further screwed himself by talking with them – and then, horror of horrors, he signed a statement in front of witnesses – which was probably a confession of guilt. Police of any kind are looking for evidence which will be used to convict you – not find you not guilty. In the first case I tried to a jury, my client was too drunk to talk to the police, but the police had razor sharp memory of incriminating facts, and absolute Alzheimers of exculpatory facts. The jury didn’t buy their story, and I won the case, much to the disgust of the judge and prosecutor. If he’d talked, taking the case to trial would have been futile. I’ve had clients who made casual remarks which got them convicted, including one made to a lady cop who looked like his mother. He trusted her, he confessed, and at the prelininary hearing she said “I’m not his goddamned mother, I’m a cop.” He wound up with $4000 in costs and expenses, a year of drug and alcohol tests, and weekly visits with a probation officer for a year – got the charge reduced to a misdemeanor – and since he couldn’t come up with $4000 in a month, he had to pay $6000 in a payment plan. Pretty tough for an 18-year old caught with two joints, one joint over the misdemeanor limit, but since he freely confessed, it was all over for him.

The answer is to *never, ever* talk, much less cooperate, with *any* kind of police. BATF agents are police, by the way. Never ever consent to a search, never talk to police, never sign anything, period. As soon as he got the call from BATF, he should have hung up, better yet, not answered, and called his attorney… If you have an FFL, you’d better have a good criminal defense attorney on retainer.

Details here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE – “Regent Law Professor James Duane gives viewers startling reasons why they should always exercise their 5th Amendment rights when questioned by government officials. Download his article on the topic at https://deliverypdf.ssrn.com/delivery.php?ID=841115116081094125024025091126087119104072028038038067092082106030020084011087008104028060057106119006096107000024084082092099007055040087041068066000027080115027017029007124089030067025123028066091118087113126076098074118071005016029101127026089081&EXT=pdf&INDEX=TRUE

“On the advice of my lawyer, I respectfully decline to answer on the basis of the Fifth
Amendment, which—according to the United States Supreme Court—protects everyone, even innocent people, from the need to answer questions if the truth might be used to help create the misleading impression that they were somehow involved in a crime that they did not commit.” – that should be printed on a card to be read verbatim – or just this: “I invoke my Fifth Amendment right to remain silent.” Don’t talk, don’t consent to a search, don’t sign anything, and if they show up at your door, have your attorney either on site or coming right over. The government is your adversary, not your friend or anyone who deserves any sort of trust, period.

On July 17, 2023 at 2:00 pm, streamfortyseven said:

Just as a side note – police can lie, scream, pound the table, and threaten you, and do this for hours on end. I had one client who was taken into the interrogation room at 6pm, and for the next ten hours, he stayed silent – all of the above were done – and they finally got someone from Child and Family Services to come in and say that unless he talked, they’d take his children, forever. At that, he broke, at four in the morning, signed a confession, and that was that. I tried to get the confession thrown out, but the judge wouldn’t do it, and my client didn’t want to appeal. And he lost his children to the State, for ever, anyway.

On July 17, 2023 at 2:24 pm, Herschel Smith said:

@s47,

I don’t disagree with any of that, but the complicating problem here is that when you have an FFL you must allow the ATF in for their audits.

Perhaps it was an issue of not knowing his status and what the visit was for.

You can’t deny an audit without forfeiture of your license.

On July 17, 2023 at 3:20 pm, streamfortyseven said:

Apparently, ATF may make one unannounced visit per year – see https://www.4473cloud.com/atf-audit-what-to-know-and-what-to-expect/. There are detailed regulations set out for recordkeeping which must be complied with to the letter, referred to in the article above. I’d still have an attorney present, one who knows the ATF regs and does administrative law or at least knows about regulatory compliance. Ideally, before the first gun is bought or sold, the rules and regs should be solid knowledge, and a recordkeeping system set up, which is scrupulously adhered to – count on it being admitted in court as evidence. This isn’t something people should go into on a casual basis – a license is permission from the State to perform activities which are generally prohibited – it is a governmentally-granted privilege, not a right – and may be withdrawn by the State (usually for cause).

On July 17, 2023 at 4:00 pm, Grunt said:

Not just gun shows will get shut down. A local gun shop here in S central Ky was shut down 2 days ago for 2 minor errors on 4473’s, over a 19 year period. This despite the thugs previous visits saying all good.

On July 18, 2023 at 10:52 am, Dirk said:

“ sure, come on over” is not a consent to search, it’s an invite to come to your property, not an invitation to enter your castle without specific verbal invitation.

I’m confused, was a search warrant Affidavit ever presented for the search?

Dirk

On July 20, 2023 at 6:50 pm, Sir Peter said:

ATF, like the FBI, are simply the communists gestapo. Abolish both

On July 21, 2023 at 5:26 pm, Jack Crabb said:

I wonder if any men know where ATF Special Agent Theodore Mongell and any family live?

On July 16, 2023 at 11:21 pm, Dan said:

Once again we see the Federal Bureaucracy being used by the criminal left to achieve an illegal and unconstitutional goal. If they are having difficulty in getting guns out of the hands of Americans they will attack the source we get them from. This will continue to happen and will expand as long as the criminal communist left is in power. And they have NO intentions on relinquishing that grasp on power…EVER.
On July 17, 2023 at 1:58 am, this ain't no picnic said:

A local was raided for an ad hoc gun & gunsmith shop in a semi trailer parked in the back yard, he did have a federal firearms license.
He had no criminal record and was a friend of nearby town/county LEO’s or it would have been a disaster for him.
Still, a hefty fine, no more FFL, some jail time and a blemish on the record.
On July 17, 2023 at 4:17 am, scott s. said:

Using your home as your licensed location is probably not the best idea. Since Clinton ATF has been revoking licenses if you don’t have a business location that is in an allowed zoning and not keeping regular hours.

There’s 3 times where ATF can inspect your bound book and licensed location: annual, trace, and probable cause. I would not recommend keeping personal firearms anywhere near your inventory. The inspection people are different from the enforcement, and any thing an inspector tells you is meaningless to enforcement.

BITD knew plenty of folks with “table top” dealer FFLs, if for no other reason than FFLs got special pricing for most stuff. I don’t have experience with entity FFLs, but suspect it is much better to have an LLC hold a license.
On July 17, 2023 at 8:22 am, Herschel Smith said:

@scott,

Well, much of that is beside the point. The point is the behavior of the ATF, and I know FFLs who mainly work out of their home and have weapons well-secured. It’s legal, and it shouldn’t draw any more attention than an FFL who has a store front.
On July 17, 2023 at 8:56 am, PGF said:

It shouldn’t draw any more attention than a child’s lemonade stand. Oh, wait, cops will shut those down too, and fine the family.
On July 17, 2023 at 1:51 pm, streamfortyseven said:

When he said “come right over”, he gave consent to the search, and screwed himself. He further screwed himself by talking with them – and then, horror of horrors, he signed a statement in front of witnesses – which was probably a confession of guilt. Police of any kind are looking for evidence which will be used to convict you – not find you not guilty. In the first case I tried to a jury, my client was too drunk to talk to the police, but the police had razor sharp memory of incriminating facts, and absolute Alzheimers of exculpatory facts. The jury didn’t buy their story, and I won the case, much to the disgust of the judge and prosecutor. If he’d talked, taking the case to trial would have been futile. I’ve had clients who made casual remarks which got them convicted, including one made to a lady cop who looked like his mother. He trusted her, he confessed, and at the prelininary hearing she said “I’m not his goddamned mother, I’m a cop.” He wound up with $4000 in costs and expenses, a year of drug and alcohol tests, and weekly visits with a probation officer for a year – got the charge reduced to a misdemeanor – and since he couldn’t come up with $4000 in a month, he had to pay $6000 in a payment plan. Pretty tough for an 18-year old caught with two joints, one joint over the misdemeanor limit, but since he freely confessed, it was all over for him.

The answer is to *never, ever* talk, much less cooperate, with *any* kind of police. BATF agents are police, by the way. Never ever consent to a search, never talk to police, never sign anything, period. As soon as he got the call from BATF, he should have hung up, better yet, not answered, and called his attorney… If you have an FFL, you’d better have a good criminal defense attorney on retainer.

Details here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE – “Regent Law Professor James Duane gives viewers startling reasons why they should always exercise their 5th Amendment rights when questioned by government officials. Download his article on the topic at https://deliverypdf.ssrn.com/delivery.php?ID=841115116081094125024025091126087119104072028038038067092082106030020084011087008104028060057106119006096107000024084082092099007055040087041068066000027080115027017029007124089030067025123028066091118087113126076098074118071005016029101127026089081&EXT=pdf&INDEX=TRUE

“On the advice of my lawyer, I respectfully decline to answer on the basis of the Fifth
Amendment, which—according to the United States Supreme Court—protects everyone, even innocent people, from the need to answer questions if the truth might be used to help create the misleading impression that they were somehow involved in a crime that they did not commit.” – that should be printed on a card to be read verbatim – or just this: “I invoke my Fifth Amendment right to remain silent.” Don’t talk, don’t consent to a search, don’t sign anything, and if they show up at your door, have your attorney either on site or coming right over. The government is your adversary, not your friend or anyone who deserves any sort of trust, period.
On July 17, 2023 at 2:00 pm, streamfortyseven said:

Just as a side note – police can lie, scream, pound the table, and threaten you, and do this for hours on end. I had one client who was taken into the interrogation room at 6pm, and for the next ten hours, he stayed silent – all of the above were done – and they finally got someone from Child and Family Services to come in and say that unless he talked, they’d take his children, forever. At that, he broke, at four in the morning, signed a confession, and that was that. I tried to get the confession thrown out, but the judge wouldn’t do it, and my client didn’t want to appeal. And he lost his children to the State, for ever, anyway.
On July 17, 2023 at 2:24 pm, Herschel Smith said:

@s47,

I don’t disagree with any of that, but the complicating problem here is that when you have an FFL you must allow the ATF in for their audits.

Perhaps it was an issue of not knowing his status and what the visit was for.

You can’t deny an audit without forfeiture of your license.
On July 17, 2023 at 3:20 pm, streamfortyseven said:

Apparently, ATF may make one unannounced visit per year – see https://www.4473cloud.com/atf-audit-what-to-know-and-what-to-expect/. There are detailed regulations set out for recordkeeping which must be complied with to the letter, referred to in the article above. I’d still have an attorney present, one who knows the ATF regs and does administrative law or at least knows about regulatory compliance. Ideally, before the first gun is bought or sold, the rules and regs should be solid knowledge, and a recordkeeping system set up, which is scrupulously adhered to – count on it being admitted in court as evidence. This isn’t something people should go into on a casual basis – a license is permission from the State to perform activities which are generally prohibited – it is a governmentally-granted privilege, not a right – and may be withdrawn by the State (usually for cause).
On July 17, 2023 at 4:00 pm, Grunt said:

Not just gun shows will get shut down. A local gun shop here in S central Ky was shut down 2 days ago for 2 minor errors on 4473’s, over a 19 year period. This despite the thugs previous visits saying all good.
On July 18, 2023 at 10:52 am, Dirk said:

“ sure, come on over” is not a consent to search, it’s an invite to come to your property, not an invitation to enter your castle without specific verbal invitation.

I’m confused, was a search warrant Affidavit ever presented for the search?

Dirk
On July 20, 2023 at 6:50 pm, Sir Peter said:

ATF, like the FBI, are simply the communists gestapo. Abolish both
On July 21, 2023 at 5:26 pm, Jack Crabb said:

I wonder if any men know where ATF Special Agent Theodore Mongell and any family live?

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ATF SWAT Team Raids FFL’s Home

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