Did Liberty Gun Safe Betray Their Customers?
BY Herschel Smith
1 year, 3 months ago
You can make up your own mind on that. Here is the scoop.
And here is a reddit/Firearms discussion thread. For me it all boils down to this one thing. Sure, the if the FedGov wants into your safe, it’s going to get into your safe. They’ll turn it over and take a crowbar to it if they have to, or simply cut through the sides. There is this interesting tidbit from the thread.
… as I did some research on this yesterday. SecuRam electronic locks have a recovery code. The default is “999999”. This doesn’t open the lock, but it gives you a random string to give to Liberty. They then use that to give you a recovery code that resets the safe code to the factory default.
Now, there are several important notes here:
- The code from your safe is generated upon request and only valid for 20 minutes. So having it in a database somewhere isn’t realistically a threat.
- You can change the recovery code. You have to go through a process that involves calling Liberty to do it, and they’ll try to talk you out of it, but you can change it.
- When I called up they explained their security process to me: they’ll only give the recovery code to a Liberty-certified locksmith. Even you, the owner, have to have a locksmith that Liberty has certified present to do it.
But for gun safe companies, there shouldn’t be any back door code for entry into the safe, and that seems to me like a selling point for gun safes. Something like this. “We know that you are buying our safe to make it as difficult as possible for people to get into your safe and touch the possessions you value. So we don’t provide a back door code for entry by anyone. Thus, warrant or no warrant, we have nothing to say to law enforcement because that feature isn’t a part of our products. Therefore, if you get locked out and forget your code, you should use the key we’ll send, or if you’ve lost that too, you may as well bring out the grinder or cutting torch, because we’re not getting into it for you. We can’t. If you’re considering out products, we know that’s what you want.”
I agree with the video from Backfire more than I do anything I’ve read or heard on this.
On September 6, 2023 at 10:57 pm, Archer said:
I’m not a professional engineer, nor am I an information security expert. (InfoSec enthusiast, maybe, but not an expert.)
It seems to me, building a back door into any security product is just asking for trouble. One disgruntled employee anonymously leaking that onto the Internet, or one successful hacking attempt that finds and publishes it, and those safes very quickly become worthless. Once that knowledge is out there, there’s no pulling it back and no fixing it short of sending a technician to reprogram every electronic/digital safe sold by that company. (And one would hope such reprogramming removes the backdoor, rather than just changing the access codes.)
Apple got away with defying the FBI’s order by demonstrating that they do not have a way to unlock an encrypted phone without destroying the data. They literally could not comply even if they wanted to. And as the Backfire video said, that case didn’t get resolved (read: didn’t determine whether they’re required to build one to comply with government demands) before the FBI found another way in. The legal theory remains untested.
Once upon a time I was in the market for a Liberty safe; they were built locally, a few dozen miles from my home. I didn’t end up getting one, and now I’m kinda glad I didn’t. I don’t want any unauthorized person, law enforcement or not, getting into my valuable personal belongings. That’s why I have a safe!
On September 7, 2023 at 6:30 am, xtphreak said:
The moral to this story is, “Don’t Get a digital Lock”!
Sure it’s faster.
Do you want it convenient, or secure?
I bought specifically with a manual dial combination lock.
Then watched YouTube to learn how to reset the combination from the factory settings.
On September 7, 2023 at 6:58 am, Frank Trappist said:
Digital locks are the way to go, for a lot of reasons. No need to ever leave it open because spinning dials takes a while and you’ll get lazy, for one. And no need for a hole through the hard-plate right by the important parts. But we’re talking about sheet-metal boxes, not actual safes. The weak link is not the lock, of either type.
The best for reliability and security are the American Security locks. They have a sticker with the lock SN inside the dial. You want secure? Remove that sticker and put it elsewhere. Problem solved. When you die, they’ll have to cut the safe open (or drill it, or whatever).
I bought mine with cash, so no one knows where that lock is today.
I don’t like that 99999 whatever system for getting a token, then asking the manufacturer for a code that works for 20 minutes. The sticker, which one can remove, is a far better solution. Anyone with access to the safe could theoretically get the code… though not easily, due to the locksmith issue. But I wouldn’t buy a lock like that.
On September 7, 2023 at 9:24 am, CT Ginger said:
I believe Liberty makes the safes Cabela’s sells
On September 7, 2023 at 11:33 am, PGF said:
Sold to investors in ’21.
https://gab.com/calwoodbutcher/posts/111024756872274145/media/1
On September 7, 2023 at 12:38 pm, Thomas said:
I had a SnapSafe with the SecuRam digital interface on it. The initial code reset didn’t work, and it locked up the keypad. They said it COULD be reset, but to do so, you had to cut through to access the way to reset it from the inside! Since it was a defective lock, they sent me a brand new door with the lock. Instead of paying to ship it back they let me keep the door. Made a pretty cool coffee table.
On September 7, 2023 at 1:56 pm, Nosmo said:
Adios, Liberty Safe.
It’s interesting to watch a company Bud Light itself.
Not only will sales on their new safes go through the floor, no one will buy a used safe with their name on it, certainly not one with an electronic lock. Which also makes me wonder how many other safe makers / security companies might have “back doors” in their products – safes, alarm companies, software companies, etc. especially “alarm companies who store their video files “in the cloud.”
Seems we’re well past the point where, as individuals, we have to personally vet the companies we spend our money with.
On September 7, 2023 at 2:44 pm, Archer said:
@Nosmo:
OTOH, if you’re mechanically-inclined there’s an opportunity to get a used Liberty Safe or three for pennies on the dollar — as people get rid of theirs because of this incident — and then change out the lock mechanism yourself. Preferably with something you paid cash for, or pulled from another safe, etc.
The “boxes” and hardware are solid on Liberties. If you can get around the company’s policy on unlocking (read: if you can replace the lock with one sourced elsewhere, that they CANNOT help unlock), you’ll end up with a fine safe.
On September 7, 2023 at 6:59 pm, blake said:
Liberty complied, most likely, because they assumed, with good reason, if they didn’t comply, government would put them out of business, one way or another.
However, Liberty failed to think it through and realize they were better off having government put them out of business rather than self destructing.
That said, you know as well as I the FBI had no compelling reason to open that safe, other than to see if there was anything worth stealing. There is no way anything contained in the safe had anything to do with the events of J6. But, thugs gotta thug. And, on top of that, we all know the FBI is quite capable of “finding” the evidence they want so they can continue with their persecution of American citizens.
On September 8, 2023 at 7:18 am, Latigo Morgan said:
Mechanical dial too slow if you need to get into your safe fast?
With a little forethought and pre-planning, you can dial in your combination but short the last number.
Then, when you want to get in quickly, all you need to do is turn it to the number to unlock.
On September 8, 2023 at 11:37 am, Dirk said:
I once had a digital safe for my weapons, after a warrant served on a Hells Angels residence and watching the DEA representative easily defeat the digital lock well I got a tumbler style. I still have the digital, it contains vintage motorcycle parts. Numbers #666666 if you need into it!
Safes simply slow amateurs down, if your getting racked by pros, they’ll
“Hot stick” it every time, five minutes in and out.