Windham Weaponry Is Finished
BY Herschel Smith
1 year, 2 months ago
It’s over for them as a company.
It is with deep regret that we announce the closing of Windham Weaponry. Our website/online retail ordering system will remain active through Tuesday night, Sept 12. We will do our best to ship all orders this week and early next week. No credit card will be charged until the order is shipped.
Twelve years ago, when we started Windham Weaponry, our shareholders and longtime employees were excited to continue the traditions and spirit of Bushmaster Firearms, after the new owners decided to leave Maine.
We built WW into a company we could be proud of providing outstanding customer service, high quality products, as well as a great place for our dedicated employees to work.
The last few years have been a very challenging time for the firearms industry, and we have struggled to keep the WW dream alive for as long as possible. Unfortunately, we have not been able to meet our loan obligations with the bank after they worked with us as much as they could.
There was a glimmer of hope when we were negotiating with an investor to help keep WW alive and healthy, but that just fell through.
We have begun discussions with Keenan Auction Company to determine the best course of action for a full liquidation which should happen within the next month or so.
Our shareholders and employees truly appreciate your loyal support all of these years.
Here is a video of one man’s perspective. Here is a reddit/Firearms discussion thread.
I searched hard in the comments for reasons. I couldn’t locate any. There are hints of loan problems, and family that may not be as committed as the owner Richard Dyke (who recently passed away). There seems to be nothing definitive on why this is happening to the company.
The one thing I do agree with in the discussion threads is that the AR-15 market is saturated (LaRue, PSA, Daniel Defense, Aeroprecision, BCM, S&W, and on the list goes). Unless you have the money to go big, I’m sure it’s difficult to compete.
On September 12, 2023 at 9:49 pm, Mike said:
It’s always sad when a business goes under.
On September 12, 2023 at 11:31 pm, Georgiaboy61 said:
Windham Weaponry was a good company, and made high-quality products. It is a shame they’re going under, but the market is glutted with affordable AR-type rifles and carbines, and the shakeout of winners and losers had to happen sooner or later. With the market softening recently, it was just a matter of time. They won’t be the last…
What really killed them was the ascendancy of Palmetto State Armory, a company which has taken the entry and mid-level markets for ARs by storm. WW made a very high-quality M4-type carbine, for example, but theirs cost more than a thousand dollars when PSA was able to match their quality for a good $200-300 less, sometimes more.
And it did not help that they had to compete with Ruger, Smith & Wesson, and other larger companies with more-diverse product lines to sustain them when AR sales began to soften.
Windham didn’t diversify their product line enough, and it came back to bite them.
It’s ironic that Bushmaster, the firm from which Windham was formed, albeit indirectly – is today a survivor in the same marketplace that Windham entered years ago when it was a start-up and the survival of Bushmaster looked problematic to say the least.
The loss of former CEO and founder Richard Dyke hurt them a great deal when he passed away not long ago.
On September 13, 2023 at 12:03 am, Herschel Smith said:
@Georgiaboy61,
Although I don’t know it to be the case, PSA has non-union labor because it’s SC (I do know that for a fact). Windham may have had unionized labor. That’s a death-stamp for any company. Any non-union shop will run a union shop out of business in a heartbeat.
On September 13, 2023 at 8:42 am, Latigo Morgan said:
Darn. I really wanted one of their A1 uppers. Now I know why they haven’t been in stock for the last couple years.
On September 13, 2023 at 10:02 am, Dirk said:
Georgia, I’m surprised you identify Windham as a quality builder. I’ve reviewed a few of their rifles, felt they were lacking, crude with seams, tough triggers Winners/losers, admittedly these were early builds, not the latest offering.
PSA, is also a company I don’t believe is in the high quality column. I understand in time they will achieve good stuff.
The low costs are attractive, yet that cost is a compromise of cheaper internal parts. Internal pieces parts are exactly the life’s blood of any m4. Junk in, junk out.
Admittedly all m4 variants have improved over the past twenty years.
My uncle has a couple Windhams, He’s a cheap guy, he just dragged in a CBC industry’s 18 in upper, out of NC. With a build kit like 300.00 minus the lower.
I’ve never seen or heard of these, full auto BCG, I’ll build it for him, be interesting to see what it has to offer. And I haven’t spec’ed its parts out yet. Zero marking on any of the parts. Be interesting, if he shoots more then 100 rounds thru it, I’d be surprised.
On September 13, 2023 at 1:02 pm, Georgiaboy61 said:
@ Dirk
Your experience is different than mine. When I used to work in the retail FA industry – I no longer do today – WW was a company making high-quality if slightly expensive products. The market was crowded even back then, and WW was competing with a lot of other companies active in the entry- and mid-level market segments. But customers seemed to like them.
A friend of mine at the time, a retired former U.S. Army Special Forces soldier turned gunsmith, saw a Windham and had a chance to wring it out – and enthused to me about its quality, workmanship and accuracy.
If it is good-enough for someone like that, etc. etc. – you know the drill.
Quality means different things to different people. A professional who depends on his weapon for his very life – or at the least the performance of his mission – may have tougher standards than a civilian whose use does not generally fall into the “hard use” category of the kind a hardcore combat soldier or Marine would do.
FWIW, if I was a young stud going into harm’s way, and given my choice of how to arm myself, I’d probably opt for BCM or maybe something from FN or one of those H&K 416s.
But I’m not and neither are the vast majority of people in the market for ARs.
Far as PSA goes, they’re regarded by some as cheap, but others as offering a lot of value for the money. Is the glass half-full or half-empty? YMMV. Thanks for writing…
@ Herschel
Yes, that’s a good point about union versus non-union. I’d hadn’t even considered that, so good on you.
On September 13, 2023 at 7:02 pm, Dirk said:
Georgia, I defer to your observation, on the WW’s. I freely admit I’m an M4 snob, not that it matter but 27 yrs in law enforcement, from literally day 1 had full auto tools, which are not a hit with me, from auto mini 14s,the majority Colts autos 16s and commandos.
, my last agency was G 36 HK. They sucked, we’re the phase one rifles, the carry hardly was to high, or my neck was to short. Stocks to long, I fixed those blemish’s out of my pocket. I’ll take a colt over the G36 anyway.
Anyway thank you for sharing, sounds like you have far more experience with the WW. Lastly my last dozen builds have been BCM uppers,,,,prior to that Aero. Was getting a hand from a friend at Thunder Ranch on pricing.
On September 13, 2023 at 10:41 pm, Herschel Smith said:
Every man has thought about what happens when push comes to shove and you have to have the best weapon you can when the time comes, whatever that time is.
My choice: Daniel Defense. Second Choice: one made by me, using a BCM upper, with a BAD (battle arms development) BCG and a radian raptor charging handle. Note that I choose a different BCG and charging handle than any manufacturer currently installs on their guns.
Lowers are simpler, and not the heart of the machine in my opinion. Maybe except for the trigger assy.
On September 13, 2023 at 10:52 pm, Georgiaboy61 said:
@ Dirk
Thanks for the kind words. I know a few things, but I haven’t been at the pointy end of the spear like you have. That kind of experience has to be respected. Far as being an “M4 snob,” you aren’t alone by any means. How many times have observers heard or read stories about this-or-that new rifle platform replacing the AR platform? Yet, here we are in the 21st century and it is still in use.
As a military historian, it is revealing to me that so many elite military special ops units choose AR-pattern carbines when they can have most anything they want as standard equipment. The regular soldiers of the British Army, for example, use the SA80-series bull-pup rifles. However, if you jump over to the SAS, the world-famous special-ops outfit, their guys are armed with H&K416s (last I checked) which are a gas piston-derivative of the time-tested M4 carbine. They can have anything they want, but that’s what they chose.
That speaks to the quality of Eugene Stoner’s basic design, IMHO.
The SA80A3 series bull-pups are supposed to be a lot better than the old ones which had so many problems, at least that’s the scuttlebutt I’ve read – so it is pretty telling that the best soldiers they have are still running M4-pattern carbines.
As our esteemed host says, if you want a rifle that you can abuse like an old shovel, get an AKM or AK47-type of rifle. But if you want a professional’s weapon, get an AR-pattern rifle or carbine. They do require more care and attention to keep running, but if you take care of it like a professional would, it will serve you well.
Roller-delayed blow-back rifles – like the CETME, G3 or the later G36 or the H&K SMGs – are their own ball of wax. Some people love ’em, and some don’t. Doesn’t seem to be much middle ground there, from what I have seen. They’re supposed to be the last word in reliable, tough as can be and able to tolerate abuse that would sideline many other designs, but especially the older designs such as the CETME and G3 – their ergonomics stink and the rifles are just not very user-friendly.
The triggers on those .308 battle rifles were simply atrocious. No last-shot bolt hold-open, either, which is a serious failing in a tactical weapon, if you ask me.
It is ironic that the CETME-G3 platform has outlasted its chief Cold War-era rival, the FN FAL, in that very few nations field the latter any longer, whereas the G3 remains in service in a number of nations around the world. Which brings to mind another strength of the design – it is significantly cheaper and easier to manufacture than the FAL or for that matter, the American M-14.
And G3-pattern rifles are probably the last word in brute toughness and ability to function under terrible conditions. They were popular during the various African bush wars and anti-colonial guerilla wars with mercs and poorly-trained irregulars because a G3 could function fine even after going months without being cleaned, serviced or lubricated. In that respect, it may be the only rival (at least in a military-pattern auto-loader) to the AK47 which matches its legendary toughness, reliability and ability to absorb abuse without complaint.
On September 15, 2023 at 11:51 am, Dirk said:
Interesting Georgia and Hershel, I own dozens and dozens of m4s. I build them often, if I don’t the cash gets squandered on trips to Europe by my wonderful wife and her set.
I see these rifles as an investment, financially and predatory.
Other than a couple of Colt variants I’ve built pretty much everything. Good kit costs, that cost is something I’m willing to pay.
Like Hershel, I do run BAD levers, in fact years ago I was at a high end trainers class, a well known CAG guy. He grabs my rifle and starts to piss and moan about the BAD lever, goes on for five minutes.
When he’s done I look at him,” we are friends”. And say loudly well billybob you don’t like the BAD perhaps you shouldn’t run one, I intend to continue to use them.
I was the Hootch bitch the rest of the week. That was my punishment for popping off to@ god like instructor.
I to use that charging handles. I prefer the LMT enhanced BCG, but only if I have a ghost busted for suppressed shooting, if not shooting a can, any quality BCG works. I keep spares in my war bag for classes.
BCM has for the past couple years been my go to, and as I mentioned I’ve built several on AERO uppers. I try and use Noveske Afgan barrels on ground up builds, I’m partial to them or Wilson Arms barrels.
Triggers are always the best I can buy. I run straight triggers in everything. Prefer the gresselles, but honestly I’ve researched a few other after market triggers and have em in rifles. So far so good.
My problem,if it’s really a problem is I’m above 4000 ft, in high desert turf, the ar10 is a far more practical rifle here. And I have many from M14s to FNs, to BM59s, a couple G3s, and clones. Starts buying AKs the others when we could source em on Shotgun news for like 75.00 I purchased many MAK 90s back then. Some Valmets, Sten guns.
Sounds strange but even back then in the 70s/80s, I instinctively realized “ They” would eventually come after all guns. Also recognized the dollar was dying slowly. Sad story, but we all live with it daily anymore.
You mention the Cemetme ? Dam fine rifle, but I chose the FN FAL over it, it just feels right in my hands. Both are battle field accurate was a personal choice.
My true love is long long distance rifles. I’m honored to own many. The rifles are fine but without good glass well, they’re just a rifle. Fortunately my wife has supported my love of high end glass. S&B and Razors are my choice.
I recently made a poor choice, I mean for me. I no longer see the need to purchase the very best. So I purchased three Vortex Strike Eagles. Yea, I know.
I screwed up, they work they meet my requirements of FFP, MRAD with tight turrents, good gearing for the dials up and across. Positive clicks and a Fstop at the bottom maybe four five clicks sub for dialing further down. Cantilever mounts. Seekins is my go to. Many fantastic mounts out there with cad machines they’re amazing.
Triggers again straight. Recently installed two Timney,l Calvin’s” on a 300wm and a 6.5c. 8 oz trigger, zero creep crisp clean bitchen break. Again the market is saturated with high end quality triggers in every shape and size.
Krieger#9 barrels all but one are equipped with Krieger barrels. Fluting isn’t a requirement. If it does with it, no worries.
My recent dive in to precession semi auto has been an interesting journey. Wilson Super Snipers in 6.5 C and 308. Amazing actually. Was a bolt gun only snob for 25 years, only amateurs used semis. I’m a retard, I drank the koolaid, I really really enjoy these Wilson’s topped with S&B PMII scopes,mrad for uniformity, the platforms are tough to beat.
Sorry I could talk about guns for hours.
I’ll close with this. I write about my experiences, what I’ve learned good and bad. It’s important to say that there are many many fine weapons systems out there, if they are working for you great, roll with it.
Perhaps the single most important thing I can say is this. End of the day you better be able to manipulate fire effectively what’s in your hands. In most applications around the world a center hit, high or low is a kill shot. I’m saying while I enjoy sub MOA shooters in the real world they are not required. Learn to be deadly with whatever you’re holding.
I know long winded apologies but I think most here are on the same page regarding training building and shooting accurately.
Never forget LUCK plays a huge part in who goes home at night. Never underestimate making your own luck by incorporating the fundamentals.
Dirk