Will Sporting Clays Become the Standard Training Defense Against Drones?
BY Herschel Smith
4 months ago
Perhaps so, says John Farnham.
In fact, Benelli is now actively marketing this idea, claiming that their autoloading shotguns, with #4 buckshot, are effective against airborne drones out to 50m, maybe even 100m (although I think 100m is mostly fantasy).
Shotguns are good for and still used in combat anyway. All militaries should be skilled in the use of shotguns. The only thing that gives the individual fighter a chance against drones in the shotgun.
Besides, training with sporting clays will likely improve your defensive shotgun use.
On August 23, 2024 at 7:39 am, Bill Buppert said:
Small Arms for Air Defense (SAFADS) has been problematic since its inception.
Physics, velocity and density of outgoing kinetic munitions whether a shotgun or a 40mm Bofors is wholly dependent on a miraculous meeting of two especially if the incoming UAS has terminal maneuvering capability.
Look at the picket ships fighting kamaikazes (arguably a large airframe w/terminal maneuvering) putting up walls of lead and still suffering “leakers”.
Read “Brave Ship, Brave Men” by Arnold S. Lott. The USS Aaron Ward turned into a floating wreck in 52 minutes on 3 May 1945 off Okinawa.
I am looking forward to an enterprising models and simulations cell at the DoD grab this and run with it to create reality-based scenarios for how to mitigate the threat.
I look forward to seeing how effective this is.
On August 23, 2024 at 8:20 am, Don't mind me. said:
Drones flying at more than 100 meters overhead are not going to be intercepted by shotgun rounds, or any small arms for that matter.
The cure will be electronic interference.
On August 23, 2024 at 8:49 am, Herschel Smith said:
There is surely a level of sophistication in the ID of enemies and employment of drones, but not all engagements are like that. Some video shows them being employed at close range.
I’d rather have a shotgun than not.
On August 23, 2024 at 6:35 pm, PGF said:
Drone-on-drone dog fighting is coming. I look at drones today similarly to the early biplane era of air warfare development and countermeasures. Down the line, very small “micro” radar-guided anti-drone missiles will be fielded. Most underestimate how dramatically drone warfare is changing the air-surface battlespace.
On August 24, 2024 at 12:57 am, Dan said:
A shotgun is only effective against drones operated by stupid people. No smart drone operator is going to get within range of a shotgun unless it’s part of an actual physical attack.
A good counter to a drone is another drone. Or an EMF projection weapon. Both would be far preferable to a shotgun.
On August 24, 2024 at 7:17 pm, Miles said:
“No smart drone operator is going to get [their drone?] within range of a shotgun unless it’s part of an actual physical attack.”
That is the precise topic; direct attack
I suggest you check out the subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/ to see the number of small explosive drones being used for direct attacks
True, they’re not used for all attacks, but any diminution of their effectiveness shouldn’t be disregarded.
On August 24, 2024 at 10:26 pm, Dan said:
A small explosive drone being directed as an attack method would be AMAZINGLY difficult to hit with a shotgun. It would require Olympic level skeet shooting skills. Not something I’d want to bet my life on. Nope….I’d be looking into EMF counter measures as the best and most likely method to succeed against hostile drones.
On August 25, 2024 at 5:03 am, streamfortyseven said:
Look up “spark gap transmitter” – figure out an antenna size and make sure it’s durable enough not to be melted by the outgoing signal. If you look at a drone controller for an FPV drone, the antenna is pretty short – that’s the length of antenna you’d be using.
On August 26, 2024 at 4:06 am, Nosmo said:
Way back when, Marlin made a shotgun they called the Super Goose – 10 gauge, 36 inch extra full choke barrel, 3 1/2 inch chamber, 2 round detachable box magazine. It was a bolt action which reduced its usefulness, but if one knows how to run a bolt rifle, not all that much. Ithaca used to make a 2+1 tubular magazine 10 gauge semi auto with a 3 1/2 inch chamber and, IIRC, a 32 inch full choke barrel was available.
I had a Super Goose for a while, and a 3 1/2 magnum shell loaded with #4 shot (#4 shot, NOT #4 buck) completely covered a 4X8 sheet of 1/4 inch plywood at 80 yards with a tight enough pattern that a duck could not have flown through it, and over 75% of the pellets passed through the 1/4″ plywood.
The shotgun was ungainly, slow to cycle because of being a bolt gun, and the mass of the thicker-than-necessary long barrel did not lend itself to rapid wing shooting, but under the right conditions – birds coming in for a landing or just taking off – it was extremely effective on water fowl at greater distances than the “standard” 3 inch 12 gauge shooter could manage.
The Super Goose, like Marlin, is extinct and there’s no reason to resurrect it, but….a much lighter 34-36″ barrel with extra full choke (and the right pellet size 3 1/2″ ammo with something approaching Federal’s Flite Control wad) and a fast cycling semi auto action and I’d think one would have a reasonable chance against drones traveling at moderate speed out to maybe as far as 120 yards. One might have to engineer a “fatal funnel” to restrict attacking drones to specific corridors to limit approach directions and angles, but I wouldn’t rule out the shotgun option just yet.
On August 26, 2024 at 12:12 pm, Dan Danknick said:
Mark my words, the spark gap transmitter will return.
On August 27, 2024 at 10:39 pm, Steve R said:
Has anyone considered flechette shells?
On August 28, 2024 at 8:42 am, Beast5 said:
AAA shotguns on a drone 500m high seems futile. Per Bracken and Buppert’s conversation a while back on taking out a helicopter with a piece of chain/cable, why not do the same thing with counter drones carrying hundreds of meters of fishing line, sweeping the skies above them for enemy drones, like a fish net to foul propellers and fiber optic lines? Kind of like minesweeping at different altitudes?
On August 29, 2024 at 6:57 pm, Frank Nobody said:
Tungsten shot, Apex for example– #2 or #4 birdshot, 2 oz. 3″ load… will perform even better. Expensive as all getout, but drones are lightly built, and tungsten very dense. A 1mm pellet will travel through 5mm or more drone material… and get more hits, maybe more surface area damaged.
#7.5 shot TSS might be enough to down a drone. 440 pellets vs. 41 for #4 buck in 3″ loading.
That’s what someone should be investigating.
I doubt one has to physically destroy the airframe. Penetrative hits on detonators, control circuitry, motors, electronics, control wires… all should be effective.