.45 ACP Versus 10mm for North America Dangerous Game
BY Herschel Smith
4 weeks, 1 day ago
This is Tim Sundles, owner of Buffalo Bore Ammunition. As I’ve said before, I’ve never felt undergunned carrying a 1911 for dangerous game, but of course, I was carrying it outfitted with 450 SMC (Short Magnum Cartridge). I would also carry 45 Super since I believe the two are approximately the same. In fact, I’d carry .45 ACP+P as well.
But as always, the choice is up to you. I did find his personal example of use instructive.
On March 17, 2025 at 12:02 am, Georgiaboy61 said:
In the past, one of the obstacles to using handguns in .45-caliber has been the availability of loads suitable to dangerous game/bear defense and/or hunting, and also to use in semi-automatic models such as the M1911A1.
Thanks to companies like Buffalo Bore, there are a lot more options than there used to be.
The old-school hand-gunning great Elmer Keith was famous for his advocacy of 45 Colt as a hunting cartridge, claiming that it didn’t need to make magnum-like numbers in order to be effective. If memory serves, he said that where game animals were concerned, that big 255-gr. hardcast bullet “… let a whole lot of blood out, and a whole lot of air in!”
Considering that the old west 45 Colt loads were comparable ~ maybe a bit hotter, but not by much – to the first 45 ACP/Auto loads, that strikes me as a decent basis for comparison.
I look forward to the narrator’s coming episodes; I am quite curious to hear his arguments regarding kinetic energy and its relationship to terminal performance. I agree with him that KE isn’t all there is to terminal performance, but it is far from irrelevant – which seems to be what is being suggested.
On March 17, 2025 at 7:55 am, Wyotana said:
I’m still gonna pack my Block 10!
15 for the bear, and one still left for me. :)
Pack whatever you’ve got. Contrary to what many people suppose, even the lowly 9mm is a well-proven stopper against bears.
On March 19, 2025 at 9:02 am, Latigo Morgan said:
Have you seen the new “Deep woods” 9mm “dangerous game” ammo?
I’m afraid it is going to give people a confidence to go up against critters with their 9mm pistols that they shouldn’t be going up against with a 9mm.
On March 19, 2025 at 12:27 pm, jrg said:
A long time ago, gun writers who penned articles on handgun use against dangerous creatures declared if the cartridge did not start with a 4 or 5, it was probably foolish to expect the desired results.
On March 20, 2025 at 8:21 pm, X said:
Pah.
I understand that this guy makes a lot of very good ammo, and I have not shot a bear through both shoulders like he has, but he comes across as a bit arrogant and high on his own supply here.
First of all he is talking about boutique .45 loadings like the .45+p and the .460 Rowland, not 230 grain, 850 fps USGI hardball like most people think of when someone starts talking about the .45 ACP. Second he is talking about 5″ ballistics. Third he is ignoring the very relevant fact that the vast majority of handguns chambered for these cartridges are going to be single-action 1911 platforms with single-stack magazines, thus 8 rounds. By contrast when people talk about the 10mm for bear defense they are almost always thinking about a Glock 20 with a fifteen round mag which is by far the easier handgun to carry and shoot not to mention the 15-round capacity.
Yes, he is probably correct that the hot-rodded .45 is “enough” and that the 10mm will overpenetrate, but it’s really an academic question.
What is the most PRACTICAL answer?
If I were ever to feel the need to carry a bear-defense handgun I would simply grab a G20 and stuff it full of 180 or 200 grain hardcast. Done and done.
On March 21, 2025 at 4:58 pm, Georgiaboy61 said:
@X
Re: “What is the most PRACTICAL answer? If I were ever to feel the need to carry a bear-defense handgun I would simply grab a G20 and stuff it full of 180 or 200 grain hardcast. Done and done.”
Your point-of-view makes eminent sense – if you like Glocks and use them – but what about people who don’t like, shoot or own them? I am speaking of our host at this fine blog, whom I remember does not like striker-fired handguns, and prefers a M1911-type design instead.
I understand that mindset, because I am an old guy who was taught all about firearms by men who either used revolvers or M1911s as their handguns, plus the occasional Browning Hi-Power – and who had served in the WW2-Korea War era military. I’m so old there were even a few WW1 veterans in the mix!
So, I’m a 1911 guy myself. I probably mark myself as a heretic, though, because I have nothing against polymer-framed, striker-fired handguns. But that’s another story…
Of course, there is a simple solution for the M1911 owner, too, which is to get a Colt Delta Elite M1911A1 chambered in 10mm Auto – and call that done!
On March 21, 2025 at 9:11 pm, X said:
Well, GB, the 1911 is a mighty fine pistol, I don’t deny it. But the Model T was a mighty fine car, as was the Model A and the ’49 flathead coupe. They’ll all get you down the road for sure, but there’s better options today.
The 1911 is needlessly complex compared to a Glock, has more potential failure points, has only an 8-rd capacity, and you have to train with it to engage and disengage the safety which is not an issue with the Glock.
I am not a Glock fanboy the way some people are, I resisted Glocks for a long time for several reasons. I was a big 3rd gen Smith guy and those are great pistols, but once I got a Glock and saw firsthand how simple and durable and functional and reliable and superior it was in so many ways, I got two and then three and now the other auto pistols mostly sit in the safe.
I will give you an anecdote from an old retired cop at our gun club, very much a gun guy and a collector, who started out carrying blued Smith Model 15 revolvers with target sights on the job, personally owned. And he said to me one day “You know, the thing I like about a Glock is that it’s such a good TOOL, you just don’t worry if you scratch it or have to break out a window with it or something, if you did that to your nice blued revolver you’d almost want to cry!”
On March 21, 2025 at 9:49 pm, Georgiaboy61 said:
@X
Thanks for all of that… but I don’t dislike Glocks. It is our host whose views you ought to be working on changing.
I will say that your comparison of a Model T to a M1911 is a false one, in the sense that the latter is still a very advanced design even in this age of computers and CNC machining, whereas the Model T is not.
I don’t deny that the Glock is a newer and in some ways more-advanced design, but “newer” and “best” are not always synonymous. Some old small arms work so well that nothing has yet been developed to replace them on their merits. The legendary “Ma Deuce” is an example. And so is the M1911 handgun. Plenty of high-end operators still prefer to use M1911s even though more-modern alternatives are available.
I do my best handgun shooting with a M1911, and I am far-from-alone in that category, I know. Why? Because of the inherent genius of John Browning’s design, that’s why.
I do take your point about Glocks being good tools, in the sense that you don’t care if it gets scratched up, worn, etc. More like Tupperware for men instead of an heirloom-quality handgun to pass down to your grand-kids or whatever.
And since I am not as young as I used to be, Glocks (composite handguns in general) score points in another dept. – they generally weigh less than the older alternatives.