LDS And Jehovah’s Witnesses On Guns
BY Herschel Smith
6 years, 5 months ago
The Salt Lake Tribune, written by Robert Rees who teaches religion at Graduate Theological Union, Berkeley, Calif., where he is director of Mormon Studies.
But no matter how much research we do or how much support we drum up to support our own prejudices about guns, we are likely just to go on shouting slogans at each other. Until we are able to permit one another’s views, we will continue to see only so far as the inside of our own heads — and reason only so far as defending our own axioms.
But even if we were able to agree on one another’s axioms, our fellow Americans and fellow Mormons are still likely to make their crazy faces when the conversation is about guns.
This is partly because of the tragedy of those nine kids and a teacher dead in Texas, and the desire many of us have to find a reason, a scapegoat, to bear our shame in a world so existentially dangerous and without moral certainty. And partly it’s because those committed to “the gun culture” consider any modification of law that may limit the omnipresence of guns to be an attack on life, liberty and the American way — not to mention God, Mormon history and tradition.
There is no doubt that the LDS takes a strong and unbending position against firearms except in the hands of law enforcement.
LDS Church policy restricts “lethal weapons” at church.
“Churches are dedicated for the worship of God and as havens from the cares and concerns of the world. The carrying of lethal weapons, concealed or otherwise, within their walls is inappropriate except as required by officers of the law,” the Mormon church says on its website, lds.org.
So do the Jehova’s Witnesses.
How a Christian chooses to protect himself, his family, or his possessions is, of course, largely a personal matter, as is his choice of employment. That said, Bible principles reflect God’s wisdom and his love for us. Out of regard for those principles, spiritually mature Christians choose not to keep a firearm for protection against other humans. They know that true and lasting security comes to those who demonstrate trust in God by living in harmony with Bible principles.
During the great tribulation, Christians will rely on Jehovah and not try to defend themselves.
It’s truly a shame because were these folks more open minded and cared about proper exegesis of the Scriptures, it’s trivial to make an unassailable Biblical case not only for the right of self defense, but the duty to defend not only oneself but other lives as well with every means possible.
The first writer I quoted, Robert Rees, mentioned a world without “moral certainty.” It’s no wonder that the LDS is screwed up with professors who are morally uncertain. Moral certainty, sir, comes from the law-word of almighty God, found in the Holy Writ, and of that, I’m quite certain.
On May 27, 2018 at 10:25 pm, Bob said:
The LDS Church’s school, BYU, also prohibits firearms on campus, sadly. That said, some regional leaders (stake president/bishops) do carry concealed at church in Utah and encourage the membership to as well, despite the Church’s lawyer’s regulations. Some even host ccw classes in churches. As my old bishop said, we need to excommunicate more lawyers.
On May 28, 2018 at 12:53 am, Adam said:
I don’t care that the manual says it is inappropriate. I carry when I go to church. The problem, as I see it, is that the Church has granted too much authority to it’s risk management department. Anything that could get the Church sued is verboten.
On May 28, 2018 at 10:41 am, Fred said:
This is too long a comment but reducing horseshit presented as religiosity takes a minute.
I didn’t know that the Jehova’s witnesses were pre-millennial dispensationalists. Man, I’m glad I never got wrapped up with them. The American Baptists are bad enough. But dear LDS’ers, Why are you not in Saudi Arabia street preaching from the King James Holly Bible? Why are you sitting in your well manicured sterile comfort and ease preaching a future tribulation at me while our brothers and sisters are being beaten, jailed, silenced, and slaughtered, even unto crucifixion, around world, still to this day. Don’t preach the revelation at me. Show me please, live it.
——————-
As to the Mormons, can you show me this in scripture please?
“Churches are dedicated for the worship of God and as havens from the cares and concerns of the world. The carrying of lethal weapons, concealed or otherwise, within their walls is inappropriate except as required by officers of the law,”
Specifically, where we are to build buildings, and especially as havens from sin (cares and concerns of the world). And show that we are to teach each other in these buildings that we are to seek refuge there instead of teaching how we are to defeat the sinful world through the Gospel of Christ Jesus. And then where are we enjoined to not carry lethal weapons? And then where are we to submit to unjust government by allowing only it’s agents superior natural law advantage (because this itself is unjust). And then where are we to submit to the ‘laws’ of men and their agents? (And don’t give me some Romans 13 hooey. You mock God by saying that His holy writ countermands itself.)
And one more thing, are of all your ‘members’ dis-handed and in false teeth dentures? Because a man could easily kill every child in one of your child studies with only his hands and teeth, even his foot, in a matter of minutes. Can you cure this sin by leaving them all quadriplegic and toothless with an armed agent of the state to watch over them? Where is it that armed agents of the state can cure our sin, show me in your bible, sirs?
On May 29, 2018 at 9:22 am, Gryphon said:
LDS is one of the Weirdest little Cults out there, right up with Scientology…
On May 29, 2018 at 12:25 pm, JD said:
I can tell you that most at my ward in AZ understand that while the LDS.org Inc. division of the church may espouse that carrying in church is “inappropriate” that it don’t mean it ain’t done. Matter of fact, in my little section of the world, many of the men and not just a few of the ladyfolk are prepared for any eventuality. Christian churches are under attack worldwide, and just because some Christians may have doctrinal disagreements with Mormons don’t mean they aren’t lumped in under the Christian banner by non-Christian foes. We are aware at the local level and are probably better prepared to handle ourselves than many of our fellow churchgoers.
As for Fred’s questions, I am no scholar nor am I a man of theological letters, however, I can say that as an Article of Faith, Mormons do believe in being “subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law,” and that assumes those leaders are obeying the law & not twisting it to their own selfish purposes. See http://www.ldsliberty.org/the-twelfth-article-of-faith-and-obedience-to-the-law/ for one author’s well-reasoned analysis of this idea. The idea of being unarmed is anathema to the Lord when the purpose if for defense of His precious life that He has given us. The Church, in its position of being a corporate entity, may have to tread a fine line over what it can say publicly, as they did in the statement quoted by our fine Captain, and what it’s members choose to do for themselves. I have not seen any LDS church building in this state, nor any of its temples, post & display the required “no guns” signs.
That says enough for me.
On May 29, 2018 at 4:44 pm, Henry said:
One would think that a church with a history like theirs would appreciate the right to self-determination against violence…
HEAVILY ARMED RELIGIOUS CULT BATTLES GOVERNMENT
Troops have been called out after a skirmish involving government
officials and a religious cult which has been gathering weapons in their
“private city”.
The cult’s leaders, who claim that God speaks to them, have told cult
members to arm themselves in preparation for the end of the world, which
they believe to me imminent.
Weapons believed to be in their possession include large-bore military
weapons as well as sporting arms. A recent series in nearby newspapers
has exposed the plans of the cult to take power throughout the region.
Troops have surrounded the cult’s “city” after incidents in which
officials have exchanged shots with cult members. There have been
reports of children being seen in the cult compound, where discipline is
said to be strictly administered.
Governor Liliburn Boggs has issued an order that these “Mormons” are to
be exterminated, or driven from the state . . .