Response To Larry Vickers On Inclusion Within The Second Amendment Community
BY Herschel Smith
6 years, 2 months ago
This is a pregnant bit of video and requires some unpacking to do it justice. Many things were said, and left unsaid.
I will not ally myself with Antifa, for they run contrary to everything I believe, want to change America for the worse, and want to use firearms to thwart my liberties. I will not arm my enemy or teach him to fight.
I also will not, for example, support unlimited immigration since I know that in the main, Latinos and Hispanics vote progressive and favor draconian gun controls. I will not change my mind because of “the sky is falling” panic attacks about possibly losing my rights if I don’t make friends with those who would oppose me. Peace at any cost isn’t peace, it’s just temporary cessation of conflict, and the necessity of compromise means you lost.
As for the LGBT community, if I meet a member of that community who persuades me that she or he will never vote or work in any way, shape or form, to thwart my rights – and that includes the right not to bake them a cake – I won’t oppose their RKBA. But I don’t join clubs. I’m not entirely sure what Larry means when he implies that I should welcome someone into my community. My community is where I live, and those with whom I run.
I am not fearful over my potential loss of rights. My rights come from God, and God alone. The Almighty has issued the decrees from which flow the right and duty of self defense, defense of home and hearth, and the amelioration of tyranny. Loss of recognition of the second amendment, to which I’ve repeatedly referred as a covenant with blessings for obedience and curses for breakage, doesn’t mean I lose a right. It means war has been declared and sides are forming.
I will always attempt to persuade those who do not see things my way to change their minds. There is one of the reasons I write. In that persuasion, I will include the RKBA, personal morality, philosophy, and theology. I can walk and chew gum at the same time, and I will not compromise the very elements of my world and life view which I believe undergird and give foundation to the RKBA. In other words, siding with an ostensibly opposing community because they might be able to be persuaded on one element, only to jettison that agreement when times get tough because it fundamentally differs from the balance of their world view, isn’t wise or effective. I see all of life as connected, a function of our noetic structure that includes judgments on the truth value of propositions, theories of knowledge, beliefs in the foundations of social order, how we determine right and wrong, and ultimacy.
Only the Christian world and life view can birth, support and sustain liberty on a long term basis. American is where it is now, collapsing under the weight of the trivial, obscene and ridiculous, because of this truth. Trying to agree on the RKBA when the foundation is falling is like throwing a cup of water on a structure that has almost burned to the ground.
Finally, Larry’s analogy is utter nonsense. It doesn’t surprise me at all that the old guard NRA believed that civilians shouldn’t be unholstering pistols under any condition. That Ken Hackathorn tried to introduce the NRA to IPSC and the NRA refused only demonstrates my points. The NRA refused to acknowledge God-given rights. God will not bless them long term. They will eventually go down in history as brief a footnote. Mr. Vickers has his analogy exactly backwards.
I shouldn’t change my world and life view or compromise with people who would eventually undermine my liberties. We’re not like the NRA in his analogy, we’re like Hackathorn. The IPSC won, as will we. God is on our side, and I’m not worried. I will not be found among the hand-wringers, clinging to whatever little morsel of agreement I can get wherever I can find it.
On October 12, 2018 at 5:25 am, 15Fixer said:
Bravo!!! Very well said.
On October 12, 2018 at 7:28 am, Longbow said:
The right to arms belongs to all free human beings.
When I saw videos of Antifa knuckleheads trying to learn how to shoot, I was glad for it. Even they will will eventually become familiar with firearms and comfortable with them. Then even they will realize that right belongs to them also. Even they will eventually realize that bearing arms allows them to control their own destiny. Then they will realize which side of the political spectrum wants to deny that right, that control of their own destiny, to them. Welcome to the club.
I would welcome the opportunity to train a bunch of Antifa knuckleheads, or LGBTQRFXYZ…whatevers. Knowledge and proficiency is superior to ignorance and fear. Even they will see that. The LIE won’t sell anymore.
On October 12, 2018 at 8:35 am, Ned said:
Just because someone owns and uses weapons doesn’t make them my ally. This people are not my friend. Longbow – associate with them at your own risk: https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/lefties-with-guns-ready-to-ruimble-with-right-wing-militias-says-arizona-anarchist-beth-payne-9221311
On October 12, 2018 at 8:40 am, Ned said:
And these idiots: https://www.redneckrevolt.org/principles
On October 12, 2018 at 10:02 am, George said:
These groups are basically Marxists/Stalinists. They hide behind the SJW mantel. They will invade and destroy and converge any organization they are permitted into. We are seeing this in our military. abet them at your own risk.
On October 12, 2018 at 10:06 am, The Wretched Dog said:
“Only the Christian world- and life-view can birth, support and sustain liberty on a long term basis.”
The crux of the matter.
The 2nd Amendment doesn’t guarantee me anything; it is merely a recognition of prior restraint on government.
TWD
On October 12, 2018 at 1:06 pm, MarkT said:
I don’t take Larry’s comments the same way. I think he just means we should try to expand the 2A community at large. We should include more groups of people in shooting and the general gun community. His Hackathorn example was showing how non inclusive the NRA used to be and attitudes like that need to change. Be more inclusive and grow the ranks of the gun community to protect the 2A. I don’t think that applies to antifa and other commie bastards who are not patriots in any sense.
It might help to see the entire video and not just the portion above.
On October 12, 2018 at 1:12 pm, Georgiaboy61 said:
@ Ned
Re: “Just because someone owns and uses weapons doesn’t make them my ally. This people are not my friend.”
Well-said… owning a piano or a guitar no more makes you a musician than owning a firearm makes one a patriot. The tool is but a means to an end; mastery of said tool is what it is all about…
On October 12, 2018 at 4:03 pm, moe mensale said:
“The right to arms belongs to all free human beings.”
@Longbow,
I’ll agree with your assertion stated above. But most certainly not about Antifa or any like them. I will not be complicit in helping those who want my head on a pike on how to get it there. They don’t care about rights. All they care about is getting a seat at the socialists’ dinner table.
If you want to train people in arms, train those who are in accord with your beliefs. Not those who will do you harm. You are not going to change their world view with your magnanimity.
On October 12, 2018 at 5:19 pm, George said:
One thing is for certain. Any person you have contact with who thinks the current immigration system is OK, with about 2 million mostly illiterate 3rd world invaders coming into the U.S. every year is not your friend.
On October 12, 2018 at 8:54 pm, lineman said:
We are headed into the abyss and some people want to keep making cupcakes…
On October 13, 2018 at 9:00 am, Ned said:
@George: 65 million people don’t speak English at home. Largest invasion in history. But muh magic dirt and “diversity is our strength.”
The people who promote this somehow think they’ll be eaten last. It’s always like that with Quislings.
On October 13, 2018 at 11:10 am, George said:
Ned, yes the grandpa and grandma do gooders of my generation. “Pedro is such a nice man. He works so hard”. If they actually knew much about Pedro they wouldn’t like him very much. Especially the fact that he is stealing their Social Security and Medicare, his children are gang members and his wife collects welfare.
The nice family from Somalia. They are real assets as well. They all have just above room temperature IQs and will require permanent care by the government forever. Their children will be the same except they will be heavily into criminal enterprises.
I know that there are exceptions. But they are not significant statistically and will not carry the day.
Have a Happy Future of Violence and idiocracy.
On October 13, 2018 at 11:19 am, George said:
Oh, and the Pedro’s and other fine immigrants we allow in by the millions each year will dutifully vote to allow the state to confiscate your firearms as soon as they can.
On October 14, 2018 at 5:56 am, Coldsteel1983 said:
“Loss of recognition of the second amendment, to which I’ve repeatedly referred as a covenant with blessings for obedience and curses for breakage, doesn’t mean I lose a right. It means war has been declared and sides are forming.”
Exactly.
And, the 2A is just a part of the central issue of freedom.
When you accept the “The Government” grants you rights, you’ve signed on to being a full fledged subject.
The various levels of government have long forgotten that they exist to serve us, The Citizen.
On October 14, 2018 at 6:02 am, Watauga said:
Longbow: One poster stated: “Just because someone owns and uses weapons doesn’t make them my ally. This people are not my friend.” Pls keep this in mind as you venture into the lions’ den of Antifa and radical homosexual groups to teach them how to kill those they hate. What you fail to appreciate is the fact–FACT–that these people will never come over to your side wrt YOUR gun rights and YOUR other freedoms because they will always HATE YOU. All you need to do to understand this reality is look at how they treat YOUR right of free speech. Try to say what you say in the public square, and you will be shouted down. THEY HATE everything you stand for. Any speech out of YOUR mouth is evil. Teach them how to shoot, and they will kill you for it. You fail to understand, Longbow, that these people survive on hatred of all that is good and right in the world. They will never understand your view of your right to bear arms. Your teaching them how to shoot well is like giving a Winchester to an aggrieved Apache Indian, teaching him how to shoot it, and then standing there, dumbfounded, when he slaughters you and all others he hates around you. You may as well commit suicide.
On October 14, 2018 at 7:36 am, Crusty Curmudgeon said:
@Watauga,
“What you fail to appreciate is the fact–FACT–that these people will never come over to your side wrt YOUR gun rights and YOUR other freedoms because they will always HATE YOU.”
Why is this a “FACT”? Once a social justice warrior, always a social justice warrior? I know several libertarians who were once communists (or at least they called themselves that). People can change, and the best way to help them change is to educate them.
However, jumping into this debate, I am not comfortable training the enemy how to be more proficient with firearms, but I appreciate Longbow’s view. I agree with his statement, “Knowledge … is superior to ignorance and fear” but I don’t agree that proficiency is. Proficiency just means you’re better at achieving your ends, but if the ends are corrupt…
On October 14, 2018 at 7:38 am, Roger D said:
Jesus said, “Ye shall know them by their fruits” (Matthew 7:16 KJV). That’s good enough for me.
On October 14, 2018 at 7:42 am, Kevin said:
Be inclusive or you will lose your 2A. The hell I will. What is all the talk about losing the 2A. Never. That is why I own firearms (one of the many reasons). I’m just going to give them up because you said so? The only thing I will lose is possibly my life. Small price to pay for my children and grandchildren’s future.
On October 14, 2018 at 8:38 am, Dave smith said:
So much for Traditional values. inclusivity is an abomination and at the risk of being seen as a racist tribal Vietnam combat wounded Marine I say to Larry Vickers no f_ing way; it is against my Christian morals to accept satanic invented Concepts such as homosexuality and LGBT.
The system is broken if it comes down to vote seeking for that purpose only.
On October 14, 2018 at 10:12 am, St.Maur1066 said:
I do not have to justify my firearms…………COME AND TAKE THEM.
On October 14, 2018 at 10:17 am, Name (required) said:
“The right to arms belongs to all free human beings.”
Antifa must not remain free. Problem solved.
I’m not sure I’m willing to call them human beings, anyway.
On October 14, 2018 at 11:12 am, oughtsix said:
The left, in all of its various guises, is pathologically devoted to the destruction of everything most of us hold dear and true. Reality as we know is is, for them, incidental to their ideology and visceral hatred of God and humanity.
I can hardly believe that, on this page, I’m reading that some of us still think that any accommodation can be made with such as antifa, illegals, perverts, sjw’s… who are just the dupes and cultural shock troops of the demonic globalists.
Yes, I said demonic and I mean that quite literally. It’s obvious and the only rational answer to the nearly complete inversion of morality and culture we witnessing, not to mention the increasing speed with which that’s being accomplished.
There can and will be no peaceful resolution with those that hate us and want us dead. To think otherwise is suicidal. They will not stop until they win or die.
On October 14, 2018 at 11:20 am, Shinmen Takezo said:
Larry Vickers is completely out of his mind in this video.
If I were there, I would have stood up and shoved a custard pie into this stupid fuckers face.
On October 14, 2018 at 1:34 pm, James said:
Everyone has the birthright to self defense/firearm ownership.Everyone also has the birth right to not teach certain folks firearm or any other skills.
I will associate at least on a shooting level with anyone until they tick me off,then,will no longer associate with them for both of our welfare.
On October 14, 2018 at 4:33 pm, grey said:
I like this response to Larry Vicker. The IPSC problem with the NRA was about old , out of touch FUDDs, there are many still around. Nothing can be done about them as they won’t change, ever. It isn’t as common now, but there are still many examples of people who really do think it is 1980 in America.
And Vickers is wrong to try to bring these people over. As said many times these people won’t change and they do want you dead. Arming and teaching them just makes it more certain that they will try to kill you with firearms.
On October 14, 2018 at 10:00 pm, Jim said:
“Downfall, failure, and death cannot be far from any man who makes counterfeit friends his ally and support”. Bamigboye Olirotimi.
Any man who would teach and train my enemies in ways they could harm me, my family, and my friends is my enemy. It’s hard for me to stomach the thought that some in my “community” would do that, but it’s true, I just read it in above posts. As King Solomon said, “there is nothing new under the sun”.
My Pappy told me many times “ don’t mess with snakes son, you’ll just end up gettin’ bit”. Wise man. Seems to be in short supply. Snakes come in many forms.
Jim
On October 15, 2018 at 6:20 am, Crusty Curmudgeon said:
“As said many times these people won’t change and they do want you dead.”
This is a lie that makes it easier for you. Yes, it’s easier to kill your enemy than to educate him. If that’s your view, then own it — understand that you are weak.
None other than Mike Vanderboegh, the founder of the III%, was once a communist. Would it have better to marginalize him as an enemy who will never change, or educate him? I’d have been proud to call him an ally and I wish I knew him personally. Many on this comment board would have apparently been happy to kill him as someone who could never change.
It’s sad I have to point out the obvious like this — that people are fallible and capable of change.
On October 15, 2018 at 2:55 pm, Watauga said:
Yes, Crusty, it is FACT–They HATE you. They HATE Longbow. They HATE me. Yes, there are exceptions that prove the rule. Of course. The vast majority of radicalized Progressive-Fascists, as we have seen in the last two+ years, is incapable of rational, reasonable, logical, open-minded thought. Their HATRED for God, history, ordered liberty, the rule of law, honesty, decency, the Constitution, States’ rights, limited government, and all things good and decent, has locked them in to a state of violence and attack at all cost–they will KILL you given the chance. And a few libertarians turned “conservative”? Aren’t libertarians “conservative” to begin with? At least in many of the things that count? No, besides the very few exceptions, these people cannot be converted into honest, good, and decent people. They have committed their lives to Progressive-Fascist violence. It’s here, and it’s growing. Teach them to handle guns, ammo, defenses, and so forth, and you are digging your own grave.
On October 15, 2018 at 3:47 pm, Tom said:
Sodomites were the spark that started the civil war written in the Bible as an ensample for our admonition, upon whom the ends of this world are come; Judges chapters 19 and 20. We take His name not in vain, we are Christians. It is our war.
On October 16, 2018 at 3:45 am, Hudson H Luce said:
Antifa, for the most part, are leftist authoritarians, usually the Marxist-Leninist-Maoist brand of communist. It’s weird how authoritarian leftists are OK, where the authoritarian Right is off-limits (not, of course, that I support any kind of authoritarian.) Would the same guy in the video make the same speech about teaching the local Nazis in marksmanship and gun handling? I really, strongly, doubt it, but the Antifa are equally as bad as the Nazis – the dedicated ones, not the kids out for a thrill and a fight.
On October 16, 2018 at 6:28 am, Watauga said:
The Left/Right structure is part of the totalitarian method. There is no Left/Right as traditionally taught and discussed. There is no continuum of extreme Left (Marxist or Maoist or Bolshevik, in traditional thought) over to extreme Right (Nazi or Fascist or KKK, in traditional thought). If the “spectrum” must be made graphic, the best simple approach would be a circle. At the top, at 12:00, is Liberty. At the bottom, 6:00, is Totalitarian Authority. In 1798, for example, the United States was very close to 12:00. In 2018, the United States is much closer to 6:00. Soviet Russia, Nazi Germany, most “Islamic Republics,” NK, Venezuela, Cuba, and a host of others have been, or are, near or at 6:00. The “Democratic West” of the European variety, probably about 7:00-8:00. It is not a matter of Left or Right. It is Liberty vs. Tyranny. All tyranny–Left, Right, Communist, Fascist, Socialist, Nazi–is the same. It is tyranny, seeking totalitarian control. Liberty–ORDERED LIBERTY–tends to suffer over time, as shown in the U.S. example. Slowly, slowly, then more quickly (think 1861), Liberty deteriorated. Lincoln’s War was the turning point, as Lincoln imposed the Omnipotent Central Government onto sovereign States and a sovereign nation. He killed hundreds of thousands to do so. In his omnipotence, he was able to convince the propaganda machine of the next 100+ years to glorify tyranny over liberty. It’s a topic for another day, as it is long and sordid, so I’ll leave it at that. The point is that Totalitarians always chip away, taking as big a chunk as WE allow them to take. The block of marble from which they chip never grows. It only deteriorates. It is only diminished. It takes upheaval to find a new block of Liberty.
On October 16, 2018 at 7:18 am, Jim said:
“Yes it’s easier to kill your enemy than to educate him…..understand you are weak”. God what a cretin! If you think I’m going to stand idly by and speak platitudes while my family and everything I own is destroyed by some unspeakable lowlife you’re as dumb as antifa, and just as dangerous to our cause. Always shouting “appease them, educate them, befriend them” Bullshit! They want nothing more than my destruction, and yours. And I will not train, educate, or befriend anyone who diametrically opposes life, liberty, and freedom! Weak? Hahahaha
On October 16, 2018 at 8:37 pm, Jim said:
And for more of your “enlightenment “ even the commies know they cannot “educate” their enemies without confining them to “re-education” camps. Indoctrination is the word. Those that willingly have an epiphany, like Mike did, before the true shooting starts, good for them, I welcome them with open arms. For the rest….where will you put your “kumbaya” camp? Me? I ain’t no camp leader, I’ll just shoot the bastards. Poor weak me.