Considering Your Tactics, Techniques And Procedures In The American Civil War II
BY Herschel Smith
4 years, 2 months ago
A Nebraska bar owner that killed a rioter has been charged with “terrorism” and “manslaughter” by a District Attorney who initially admitted it was blatant self defense.
The DA has also admitted that they were “pressured” by local activists and politicians to bring the charges.The bar owner, Jake Gardner, has now been indicted by a grand jury on counts of manslaughter, use of a firearm in the commission of a felony, attempted first-degree assault and making terrorist threats.
On May 30, the 38-year-old bar owner confronted a group of rioters outside one of the bars he owns in Omaha and was knocked to the ground.
“From there, he fired two warning shots and tried to get to his feet, prosecutors said. As he did, Gardner got into a fight with one man, James Scurlock, 22. The two scuffled before Gardner fired a shot that killed him,” Yahoo News reports.
The incident prompted a wave of further “protests,” particularly after Donald Kleine, the Douglas County attorney, determined that Gardner had acted in self-defense and declined to bring charges.
“A week later, Kleine said in a statement that after hearing from local residents and elected officials he would welcome an outside review ‘in this rare instance.’ He added, ‘I made a decision and I would not change that decision based on everything I know today,’” the Yahoo report explains.
Douglas County District Court Judge Shelly Stratman then appointed a special council, Fredrick Franklin, an assistant U.S. attorney in the U.S. Attorney’s Office in Omaha, to handle the case, though they said they expected the same outcome.
Instead, Franklin bowed to pressure and dug up evidence and came up with charges.
“The manslaughter charge, he said, is related to Scurlock’s death; the attempted assault charge resulted from the second warning shot Gardner fired; the charge of making terrorist threats is linked to ‘a verbal confrontation’ that Gardner had with Scurlock, Franklin continued,” Yahoo reports.
War has been declared on you, your family, and your possessions. You’ve seen enough instances like this to know how it’s going to go down.
You behave according to traditional Western and Biblical jurisprudence, and then the unthinkable happens.
You’ve been baited into a response. Every action has been videoed. A prosecutor charges you with some crime, or even decides not to.
The family of the one who has been shot gets on local television and cries and talks about what a “good boy” he was, and how he had such a bright future, complete with smiling pictures of the boy and local pastors talking about volunteer work he did. It will all be covered by local talking heads in suits and pretty dresses, who look sad while listening, and show the utmost unction during the interviews.
Local politicians, who want to get reelected and need all the votes they can muster, pressure prosecutors. The prosecutor changes his or her mind and convenes a “Grand Jury.”
Grand juries don’t have the same protections for you, are unconstitutional, and were constructed to get presumed convictions where they otherwise couldn’t (after all, a real jury would conclude, then why else would a grand jury have indicted someone?). It doesn’t take a unanimous decision to indict on a grand jury.
The judge watches the local news too, and appoints a “special council” to investigate and prosecute your actions. You get convicted, or even if you don’t, you spend your life savings and go bankrupt defending yourself.
This all happens if you use traditional TTPs to defend yourself and your family, even attempting to warn rioters with warning shots because you don’t really want to harm anyone, under the assumption that America is still a civilized and just society, not at war with itself.
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On September 17, 2020 at 11:04 am, PaulB said:
So what happens when I punch one of those idiots? Be advised I can punch through a concert block so i am sure a lot bad things will happen?
On September 17, 2020 at 12:14 pm, blake said:
I have no problem firing warning shots. Then, after the first body hits the ground, maybe it will serve as a warning to the rest of the idiots they should perhaps go elsewhere.
On September 17, 2020 at 12:25 pm, Brandon said:
I agree with you take with one correction.
A grand jury is Constitutionally based function.
The intent is/was to create the ultimate check and balance of government power by having random citizens chosen to serve on it and approve or disprove indictments of felony charges. The greatest flaw of the grand or regular jury system is they are made up of regular citizens, the same regular citizens who watch CNN MSNBC graduated from government run schools and universities etc.
“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
John Adams
On September 17, 2020 at 12:36 pm, Herschel Smith said:
@Brandon,
I agree with your correction (Fifth Amendment). I wrote too quickly, and should have explained that it has been put to unconstitutional purposes and used wrongly. It was initially to create a check on the power of FedGov. It is used for precisely the opposite purpose, esp. with dumb jurors.
On September 17, 2020 at 12:47 pm, ambiguousfrog said:
It’s my understanding that a grand jury is/can be swayed by the prosecutor by not presenting all evidence at the time in order to move to a trial? Otherwise, if presented all of the evidence at once, the grand jury most likely wouldn’t move to a trial? Anyone?
On September 17, 2020 at 12:48 pm, Survivormann99 said:
“Grand juries don’t have the same protections for you, are unconstitutional, and were constructed to get presumed convictions where they otherwise couldn’t (after all, a real jury would conclude, then why else would a grand jury have indicted someone?).” This language indicates a lack of understanding of the law.
If a case gets to a trial, either a Grand Jury found, or a judge found at a probable cause hearing, that there was probable cause for the charges filed. The case could not proceed to trial without such a finding or without a waiver of the hearing by the defendant.
Proving probable cause always involves a far lower standard of proof than is required for a criminal conviction which is “beyond a reasonable doubt.” Someone famously said that a prosecutor could get a Grand Jury to indict a ham sandwich if he wanted to do so.
On September 17, 2020 at 12:49 pm, Herschel Smith said:
@frog,
It’s worse than that, even. In grand jury rules, the jury can ask questions and interact with the counsel. It doesn’t require unanimous agreement to indict, and exonerating evidence may not be presented.
It’s not even really a trial. A grand jury can convene, indict you, and you never even having heard about it or there to defend yourself. That’s what happened to Millie Weaver.
It’s a kangaroo court.
On September 17, 2020 at 12:52 pm, Herschel Smith said:
@Survivor,
Read the two comments I made. Apparently you didn’t.
Furthermore, if they do tell you about it and force you to show up, you don’t get constitutional protections in a grand jury proceeding. You don’t get to plead the fifth and refrain from incriminating yourself.
Then having done so, that “confession” can be taken to formal court proceedings where pleading the fifth amendment is now irrelevant because you didn’t have it in the grand jury.
Everything is set up against you under current rules. And if you do refuse to speak during grand jury proceedings, a judge can find you in contempt and put you in prison until you do talk.
Historically, people have been taken down this way (using grand juries to force them to talk).
It’s happened before, it’ll happen again. It’s an end-run around the fifth amendment, not a protection of the fifth amendment.
Under current rules.
On September 17, 2020 at 1:14 pm, Matt Bracken said:
One suggestion: since it seems that a home owner will likely face arrest for any act of self defense on his property vs a communist mob, even when faced with the threat of arson or worse, it should be up to neighbors to defend the family, home or business under attack.
A load of turkey shot skip-fired off the pavement from behind the hedges about 100 yards away at the first sign of anything being lit on fire, even a fuse, should take a lot of the fun out of being a commie night terrorist.
On September 17, 2020 at 1:15 pm, scott s. said:
Spent a year on the state grand jury for Oahu (Honolulu). The purpose of the grand jury is to determine
1. if a crime was committed
2. if the crime was in the jurisdiction of the court
3. if there was probable cause that the named person or persons did commit the crime.
Grand jury is dependent on the prosecutor who determines what evidence will be presented. Grand jury can (and we pretty much always did) directly question witnesses. We also had access to our own court-appointed lawyer where we had questions on the law and elements of an offense.
You can argue that a grand jury will indict a ham sandwich, but our county prosecutor (ie, DA) led an effort to amend the state constitution to allow felony indictment on written information which seems a step back to me.
If someone blows off serving on a jury, don’t complain that the jurors are the lowest common denominator.
On September 17, 2020 at 1:25 pm, Herschel Smith said:
@scott,
[1] I agree with you about idiots who serve on juries – we need smarter people. [2] Precisely. The prosecutor decides what evidence is presented, and exonerating evidence is not presented. [3] Nothing you’ve said has persuaded me that my assertion that the grand jury (under current rules) serves as an end run around the fifth amendment rather than a protection of it is incorrect.
On September 17, 2020 at 1:29 pm, Red in OleVirginny said:
Don’t “confront” rioters. Rifles are stand off weapons.
“…under the assumption that America is still a civilized and just society, not at war with itself. ”
This is the key phrase and I agree 100%.
I hope it works out for Mr. Gardner.
Best Regards,
Red in OleVirginny
On September 17, 2020 at 1:29 pm, BRVTVS said:
Roger Roots wrote an excellent history of how grand juries fell into their current degraded state. https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1771994
On September 17, 2020 at 1:31 pm, Herschel Smith said:
@BRVTVS,
Yea, it’s surprising to me to see the defenses of grand jury proceedings in the comments section.
To say that they are in a degraded state is an understatement.
On September 17, 2020 at 1:40 pm, Ned2 said:
It would be comforting to see all these lily livered public officials appear on the back of milk cartons.
On September 17, 2020 at 3:07 pm, Survivormann99 said:
Herschel,
You are clearly uninformed about how Grand Juries work and the consequences of them. I don’t have the time to type a legal treatise, and I seriously doubt that your readers are interested in reading it.
However, I will reiterate that it does take very little evidence to indict someone who is hauled before a Grand Jury.
On September 17, 2020 at 3:15 pm, Herschel Smith said:
@Survivor,
And while trying to insult me, you clearly proved my point and declared me correct about everything.
If you think a grand jury is there for your protection, under today’s rules, you are naive.
On September 17, 2020 at 3:48 pm, James said:
Really not going to consider grand juries or anything of that ilk if I or friends/family lives are threatened,going to act and ifIi survive then can then consider the legal issues,at least i am alive to do that.
On September 17, 2020 at 3:54 pm, Hudson H Luce said:
Grand juries are an interrogation and investigation tool, used to deny the exercise of constitutional rights. They’re not independent of the prosecutor, they’re chosen to be a rubber-stamp. At one point, where it was possible to have a “runaway grand jury” (see https://constitution.org/2-LawRev/roots/runaway.htm), they were an effective check on unjust prosecutions, but that’s no longer the case.
On September 17, 2020 at 3:59 pm, Ned said:
Re shotgun standoff: FWIW, steel shot loses considerably less velocity than lead in a ricochet off of a paved surface.
On September 17, 2020 at 5:40 pm, TwoDogs said:
Shooting in self defense no longer legal, apparently. Shoot from far enough away that you can’t be identified, scoot and shut up. No up close confrontations.
On September 17, 2020 at 5:47 pm, Jimmy the Saint said:
@ Blake: “I have no problem firing warning shots. Then, after the first body hits the ground, maybe it will serve as a warning to the rest of the idiots they should perhaps go elsewhere.”
Reminds me of some old comedy movie:
“What was that?!?!”
“Warning shot.”
“Warning shot? You aimed at his head!”
“Wouldn’t you consider that a warning?”
On September 17, 2020 at 5:52 pm, Jimmy the Saint said:
@Ned2: “It would be comforting to see all these lily livered public officials appear on the back of milk cartons.”
What do you have against roadside ditches?
On September 17, 2020 at 5:52 pm, Brad said:
District Attorney is an elected position as is a Sheriff. These clowns in these liberal areas are pandering to their constituents instead of following the rule of law or the Constitution. They are derelict in their job duties and should be forced to resign. The “Silent Majority” need to stop being so silent.
On September 17, 2020 at 6:02 pm, xtphreak said:
Don’t know off hand of any state in which “warning shots” are legal.
If you have reason to draw a weapon, it can turn into “brandishing” if you don’t use it.
If you have a reason to shoot, shoot to stop the threat, if you shoot anywhere else (warning shot) you can’t defend that action.
Now you’re “discharging a weapon in the ____limits” or other BS charges.
@Matt Bracken
Shotguns are always preferable. Ballistics are slim to none. Often barrels are quick swappable.
On September 17, 2020 at 6:18 pm, JoeFour said:
“Grand Juries Gone Wrong” … by Roger Roots … the same fella that wrote “Are Cops Constitutional” … highly recommended
file:///C:/Users/Owner/Downloads/SSRN-id1771994.pdf
On September 17, 2020 at 8:43 pm, Bones said:
The Grand Jury is an important safeguard of our rights. In my experience, most every shooting ends up in a presentation to a Grand Jury. The people get to decide whether a crime was committed, who committed it, and if an indictment should occur, this is called a “True Bill”. A “No Bill” can be issued by the GJ, denying an indictment. Citizens in the community can call BS on such an act and let the person go.
Where this becomes problematic is when the prosecutor decides to violate his oath and skews the evidence to obtain a result not consistent with the facts. Since all the evidence does not have to be presented, and there is no defense attorney to support the defendant, (who may not even be aware of the potential indictment), the prosecutor can, “indict a ham sandwich”, as the saying goes. See also: the Minneapolis cops.
Where there is pressure by the usual suspects for “justice”, the elected prosecutor often falls prey to such pressure. He’s hoping to pacify the mob, and will use what a friend calls “economic guerrilla warfare”, betting that the defendant will plead guilty to a lesser charge to avoid bankruptcy, poverty, etc…
On September 17, 2020 at 9:02 pm, Levi Garrett said:
@xtphreak,
I’ve been thinking more and more about shotguns recently for the reasons you mentioned. Barrels are quickly and easily swapped. You can also reliably hit vital zone-sized targets at 100-200 yards with slugs with the right setup. A smoothbore barrel shouldn’t leave any traceable markings on a rifled slug, and a saboted slug is never in direct contact with the grooves in a rifled shotgun barrel. It’s the same thing with some of the “accelerator” rounds that have been made for various rifle calibers – a full-power rifle round with a smaller-than-normal bullet held in a plastic sabot. It results in screaming velocities and no rifling marks on the bullet, although accuracy might suffer.
As for defending from mobs, I’ve been trying to think of ways to harden a home/property and keep them from even getting up within molotov range in the first place. Whatever you do, don’t use booby traps, that would be against the law…
On September 17, 2020 at 9:27 pm, 15Fixer said:
All this talk about “Grand Jury”s pre-supposes that the Rule Of Law reigns. The American Legal System is thoroughly corrupt from attorneys, to prosecutors, judges, appellate courts, supreme courts, legislatures, governors, ….. there may be a few good ones but the is NO JUSTICE in the american legal system. Unless the Law applies to everyone, everywhere, all the time, under all conditions, there is no Law.
On September 17, 2020 at 9:33 pm, TC said:
Clearly those that are making the charges and enabling the criminals do not remember that at a point in our human history, people that did such things brought about the end of their line.
By that, for those that may not know, is their own deaths, and the deaths of their entire family down to the last.
Keep this up, and the result will be found in history. This will be equally applicable to the criminals, sycophants and media who stir this pot of excrement day after day.
Excuse me while I go load up.
On September 17, 2020 at 9:54 pm, Wolfish Ways said:
Simple, solo, secret, spontaneous.
On September 18, 2020 at 7:15 am, Wes said:
The FISA court, or “Red Flag” hearings, like grand juries, are all ex parte affairs, no?
As currently operated, individual constitutional safeguards are not a consideration.
Roadside ditches, lamp post at the end of town, old quarries or mine shafts…
Matters not; the message will get through.
On September 18, 2020 at 9:45 am, Randolph Scott said:
We know who our enemies are on the street and in political/ beauarcratic offices.
Many of these people need to be Bowmanized.
On September 18, 2020 at 10:26 am, rickr said:
Re: the composition of juries:
I’ve been called into the prospective jury pool twice, seated neither time. Last time, the (local) case involved some insurance dispute. During voir dire, I was dismissed basically because of prior experience in the P&C industry. Looking from outside, I’d guess that inside-baseball knowledge is exactly what would be wanted on a jury … but no. (My cynical side is confident I was dismissed for being the only male who was white and wearing a coat and tie.)
On September 18, 2020 at 5:58 pm, James Sullivan said:
The warning shots were foolish, where did the bullets go?
Still sounds like a justifiable homicide, the deceased attacked.
On September 20, 2020 at 6:39 pm, Ned said:
Well this is terrible news.
Apparently Jake Gardner just committed suicide: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/09/breaking-omaha-bar-owner-charged-killing-rioter-attacked-business-committed-suicide/?utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=websitesharingbuttons
On September 21, 2020 at 4:05 pm, Mark Matis said:
Sure would be a shame if the Only Ones who came to make the arrest were not able to go home that night….
On September 21, 2020 at 4:07 pm, John said:
I am still waiting to see when and if family members of the bar owner (or others in similar situations) will eventually pay a visit to the perp’s family, and perhaps the DA.
Of course, I’m not at all promoting it, just surprised it hasn’t happened yet.
On September 21, 2020 at 5:20 pm, The Black Death said:
Obviously doing everything we can to follow the ROE means nothing and the only “legal” answer is to let them kill you. Sounds more like you just do the deed to everyone who needs it, including any camera man. Gonna take you down for one, then take them all.
On September 21, 2020 at 6:25 pm, Dirk said:
I’ve testified 1000s of times before grand juries, their a kangaroo court, lead to a conclusion. As police your required to pen a written report “Who What Where When Why and How” Even knowing that the case was unadulterated grade A bullshit. ” cops are finders of the facts” “DA’s are Triers of facts”.
Then have to sit there allowing the ADA, to cherry pick the facts, knowing its bullshit. My last ten years in service I finally demanded to present my own cases, via reading the entire police report, stem to stern, so that EVERY fact, statement, and bit of evidence was covered in a consistent manner.
What I got, was what I demanded fairness, Frank honest questions from the jurors. In many instances it kept good men and women out of the court system.
Hershel, once again your full of shit, jury panels are lottery picks, are everyday common citizens, from moms and dads, to very intellectually astute men women. Calling jurors stupid and incompetent once again reflects your hatred of a broken system.
I share that view, I just can’t support your unsupported accusations of dumb jurors. Their people tasked with making choices with 1/4 of the facts present in a crimimal report.
Your statements like calling aero space engineers, fucking retards!. It’s not true, and inaccurate.
Dirk Williams
On September 21, 2020 at 7:34 pm, Saml Adams said:
My spouse served 3 months on a state grand jury–some of the cases were emotionally scarring. However there were several where prosecutors presented a truly shit case, treating the grand jurors like a rubber stamp. She was successfully able to argue the others into returning a “no bill”. Which stunned the prosecutors that were used to just going through the motions and getting an indictment. It did open her eyes to evil people, both criminals and prosecutors.
On September 21, 2020 at 7:43 pm, Ed said:
Everyone should be prepared to go on the run and take the war to the RevComs if you are ever in any of these situations that are happening daily now.. We are at war and killing yourself or sitting in a enemy prison is not the solution. If you can fight and defend yourself and take out a RevCom soldier. Then you should have a plan for what happens after. I will never surrender and neither should any of you.
On September 21, 2020 at 9:58 pm, NorthGunner said:
Looks like Gardner just took the issue of his being railroaded through
a Kangaroo Court off the table:
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/21/us/nebraska-jake-gardner-suicide/index.html
Of course, the (((controlled media))) will continue in their
narrative of holding up ‘The sacred Negro’ as the victim/martyr.
Not surprising..not surprising at all…
NorthGunner – The Truth Is It’s OWN Defense!
On September 21, 2020 at 10:08 pm, Herschel Smith said:
@Dirk,
“Hershel (sic), once again your (sic) full of shit …”
You don’t give me a single penny to post content and host this site or supply band width. I do that out of pocket.
You’re in another man’s house. You don’t get drunk and trash a man’s house, nor do you sling profanity at him and call him names.
You’re uncouth and uncultured.
So be mannerly, respectful, and dignified, or go away and don’t come back. If I have to, I’ll take out the trash myself.
Now, to the issue you brought up. I don’t owe you or anyone else a detailed dissertation every time I write a 2-minute post. But for the slow among us, I’ll add to my distrust of the American jury system.
Most of America cannot do basic arithmetic, or basic physics, much less solve algebraic expressions, or … God forbid … do calculus. Most of American cannot construct coherent sentences and have no more than 2 to 3 minute attention spans.
Most Americans cannot name the first three presidents or explain the roles of the three branches of government. More than half of America voted for a corrupt communist named Hillary Clinton in the last election.
There may be some juries who happen to get it right, but in the main, I distrust juries (criminal and civil) as much as I distrust the Grand Jury. And no, your umpteen experiences with a jury don’t matter one little whit to me.
One example should suffice (I could give many more). A former colleague (and fellow professional engineer) was interviewed by lawyers to sit on a jury for a case involving elevators (who knows, maybe someone was suing Otis Elevator for whiplash or something).
The lawyer asked him, “Do you believe elevators can fall for no reason at all? To which he responded, “No, there will be a reason – mechanical failure of a component, failure of a circuit, or failure of something to cause the event. A formal root cause analysis could identify why, and give us a root cause or multiple root causes, but no, nothing happens for no reason.”
He was dismissed, and the lawyers went on until they found an entire jury who believed that elevators can fall for no apparent reason.
‘Nuff said.
On September 21, 2020 at 11:54 pm, Oracle of Oracle said:
Herschel Smith, I for one appreciate your wisdom and sincerity in these trying times. Godspeed my friend.
On September 22, 2020 at 6:05 am, RM said:
Shadow gate The Movie revealed that rigged Jury Selection software exists and is in use to “randomly” select the jury pool that the Deep State desires.
On September 22, 2020 at 6:59 am, CPB said:
The 3S rule use it! If you cant at that moment, get to safety, remember who, pick your time and place find the POS and use it later!
On September 22, 2020 at 7:39 am, simmerjet said:
I see a misdirection of frustrations, focusing on the puppets instead of the people pulling their strings… Rioters are easy enough to deal with, Its the shot callers that need the attention…”Instead, Franklin bowed to pressure”….
Perhaps It’s Franklin, and his kind that needs the attention?
On September 22, 2020 at 7:02 pm, DWEEZIL THE WEASEL said:
Shoot. Scoot. Silence. Take a lesson from the IRA: One shot Paddy. No one connected with the Leviathan is on our side. No one is coming to save us. Bleib ubrig.
On September 23, 2020 at 9:55 am, William said:
“You’ve been baited into a response. Every action has been videoed. A prosecutor charges you with some crime, or even decides not to.”
Consider the actions of Soros in recruiting these sorts of district attorneys, for whom the process is the punishment, who decline to prosecute the useful idiots, who sow division and fear in the citizens.
Soros’s plan is now coming into focus. This civic chaos has been years in the planning.
– First, install your minions into key DA and judicial positions around the country
– Second, organize your street thugs and have them on-call to do your bidding
– Third, wait for/choose just the right spark to set off the (literal) inferno, preferably a racial spark (Fentanyl Floyd)
– Fourth, activate your street resources to riot. The corrupt DAs then do their part to protect the rioters and prosecute the righteous.
These globopedohomo billionaires are truly wicked.
On September 23, 2020 at 3:43 pm, Dirk said:
Afternoon Hershel, that I hold yo to a high standard then most, is wrong. That I call you on half truth and innuendo, as Biden is fond of saying ” Come On Man” !
My intent is simply to call attention to the hypocrisy of calling lottery jurors, loosers and fools, is Un exceptable.
As for shitting on your floor, well this subject matter just sadly happens to be in my wheel house. I did this for a living, for 25 years,,,,,I have a ton of respect for those citizens who step up to the plate, for their communities, and do their tour on the GJ, with zero or little compensation from lost wages, or having to pay for babysitting in and effort to do the right thing.
Haten the game’s one thing, haten the players, especially those rightous citizens doing what they believe is the right thing,,,,,,,,, is unSat.
Hershel, your a better man then this. We both know it.
I’ll finish with this. In court when Defense has zero wiggle room, they are taught to attack the investigator, cuz,,,, they got nothing factually to attack. I stand on my facts, and you attack the player.
I expect that on AP, or even over at Pete’s place, but not in your house.
I’m often a bull in the china shop, always have been, it ain’t pretty but it’s who I am. Brother I won’t be changing cuz I hurt your feelers!
Have a good one, keep up the good work, MOST of your work is rock solid.
Dirk
On September 23, 2020 at 11:18 pm, Herschel Smith said:
@Dirk,
Game and players.
The game is crooked and tilted.
The players sometimes get it right, but oftentimes get it wrong because of the level of education, intelligence, and spiritual acumen and awareness in America today. America is a godless country today.
Moreover, can you imagine anyone taking a class in rhetoric or logic today in grammar school? The colonialists did. Have you seen mathematical examinations for grammar schoolers in colonial times? Most American HS graduates would flunk.
I reiterate my loathing for the system. I repeat my distrust of the players, at least, in the main. And I’m not wrong. And you know it.
And you have no right to take a dump on the floor of my house. It has nothing to do with how I “feel” about it. It has to do with basic decency, manliness, honor and dignity.
The fact that this is how you behave, or so you say, is no excuse.