Sig’s Rattler Will Be U.S. Special Operators’ New Tiny Rifle
BY Herschel Smith
2 years, 6 months ago
From a reader, this report on new weaponry for SOCOM.
It has a 5.5″ barrel. The propaganda at the link says, “One was to roughly match the ballistic performance of the Soviet-developed 7.62x39mm round, retaining accuracy and power when fired from a weapon with an extremely short barrel. The other includes a heavier bullet that is subsonic and ideal for suppression and close-quarters combat.” It will “blast out of tight spots with a wallop similar to a full-size assault rifle.”
No it won’t. It shoots the 5.56X45 and the 300 BO rounds. The 5.5″ barrel will cause a tremendous loss of bullet velocity.
SOCOM released a statement: “After years of continuous market research, USSOCOM HQ has concluded that Sig Sauer is the only vendor that can fulfill USSOCOM’s need for the commercial PDW requirement.”
The only vendor. Sig is the only vendor who could fabricate a PDW that shoots a bullet. Any kind of bullet. Pistol caliber or rifle caliber that behaves like a pistol round because of reduced muzzle velocity.
The only vendor.
My question is this. Who at Sig has what on SOCOM? What is this love affair with Sig and why does it exist?
I wouldn’t want to go into a gun fight with that thing. Guys, make your rifles rifles, and your pistols pistols. Stop trying to marry the two.
On May 23, 2022 at 10:27 pm, Fred said:
USSOCOM *HQ*
The answer is right there in black and white. Did anybody bother asking the men (and women, perverts, sodomites, and freaks) of the various Socom unit types what they wanted? Eh, the users get the weapon they want anyway. Most of those will sit in a locker barely used but hey, Sig gots dat money!
On May 23, 2022 at 10:41 pm, Chris Mallory said:
The press release I read kept talking about how this firearm is concealable. How other than under a trench coat or in a gym bag? It has a OAL of 23 inches and a height of 8 inches, plus the magazine. The weight is 5lbs. It might be easier to use in a vehicle or really close quarters, but a handgun it is not. The Sig M17 has an OAL of 8 inches and a height of 5.5 inches and only weighs 29oz.
On May 23, 2022 at 11:33 pm, Chris said:
Specialized Weapon for “Highly” Specialized situations.
The kind, “maybe”…your children will read about oneday when they are old and wrinkled and we have long feed the worms.
You and I wint be reading that story.
I’d rather have that in Selectfire than a G18.
Why not a True Sub-Gun??
That, I dont have a clue.
As for Sig seeming to be the Hot Girl of late?
There greasing the proper palms, be it Money, Positions, Stock, orrrr I don’t know maybe Black Weapons and Ammo?
Rats is Rats is Rats.
Dogs is Dogs is dogs.
Cats is Cats is Cats.
Snakes is Snakes is Snakes.
It doesn’t matter what body modifications ya do to it.
Nothin changes.
imo of course.
On May 24, 2022 at 8:45 am, Bill Sullivan said:
Sounds like they are trying to re-invent the submachine gun.
On May 24, 2022 at 9:57 am, Herschel Smith said:
A submachinegun shooting 5.56X45 is a ridiculous proposition.
On May 24, 2022 at 10:12 am, Furminator said:
As with oil drilling and deficit spending we have passed the point of diminishing returns in firearms development. A Henry repeater was a quantum leap over a muzzle-loader; an M1 totally outclassed a Mauser or Springfield; an M16/M4 met the needs of the modern military better than a battle rifle. These new SIG guns basically just tweak existing capabilities. There’s nothing game-changing about them.
On May 24, 2022 at 11:27 am, Don Curton said:
I’m guessing there were no Uzi’s left over from the 80’s?
On May 24, 2022 at 12:35 pm, Bones said:
I suspect that this is to be the Personal Defense Weapon for Special Operations air crews. 160th SOAR crews carried MP5s in their MH-60s, and MP5k’s aboard the MH/AH-6 little birds.
They would replace the 9mm with the 5.56.
Tier 1 SMU’s used the Mk18 (M4 with 11 in barrel), M4, and whatever else worked, including the MP7.
On May 24, 2022 at 3:50 pm, Georgiaboy61 said:
Re: “A submachinegun shooting 5.56X45 is a ridiculous proposition.”
It is indeed! Eugene Stoner and James Sullivan designed the AR15/M16 with a 20-inch barrel for a reason: The lightweight 55-grain Ball/FMJ fired by the rifle’s 5.56x45mm cartridge did not possess sufficient kinetic energy to inflict lethal/incapacitating wounds without also possessing high muzzle velocity, on the order of 3240 fps in the original form.
Stoner commented many years later in an interview that he was exploiting a known characteristic of lightweight high-velocity projectiles, namely their propensity to yaw and become dynamically-unstable faster than heavier projectiles, other things being equal. Added to the fact that spitzer rifle bullets are tail-heavy in the first place and kept in their proper nose-first attitude only by the enormous rate of spin imparted by the shot traveling through the barrel, and you have the basic ingredients of his recipe for ballistic success.
Producing a PDW (personal defense weapon) or for that matter, an SMG (sub-machine gun), in 5.56x45mm NATO/.224-caliber is foolish, since neither of these classes of weapons generates nearly enough MV to give the sort of terminal ballistic performance Stoner was after back in the 1950s, i.e., equivalent to or greater wounding potential than the M-1/M-2 Carbine.
Navy SEALS in Vietnam and SE Asia used CAR-15s successfully in action, as did later special ops forces in other places, but a CAR-15 has a significantly longer barrel than the 5.5″ tube on the SIG Rattler.
If you are going to run a barrel that short, one might as well being shooting pistol ammunition, since that is essentially what this weapon is – a tarted-up pistol. At least 9x19mm, 40 S&W and 45 ACP perform well at low muzzle velocities, which is not something which can be said of 5.56x45mm. 300 Blackout may do OK from a barrel that short… but that is in essence a pistol cartridge despite its being used in carbines and SBRs.
On May 25, 2022 at 3:11 pm, Ned said:
I worked on a Carbon 15 pistol years ago. I think it had around a 7″ barrel. Muzzle blast was fearsome. I could see a basketball sized fireball during the daytime. This thing will almost have to use a suppressor in 5.56.