Disabled Combat Training
BY Herschel Smith
This seems like a fair test for a run of the mill shotgun with offhand shooting. I don’t think it’s a fair test of more expensive shotguns or guns that have been modified and adjusted for distance.
Most shotgun manufacturers have much longer barrels, and trying different chokes would have helped with his shot spread. Beretta has a longer barrel “forcing cone” than other tactical shotguns, and using different ammunition might have helped (e.g., Federal FliteControl).
So if I wanted distance versus a more portable close quarters battle shotgun, I’d install a 32″ competition barrel and use different ammunition. I’m willing to bet that he could land pellets at 100 yards. I wouldn’t want to get hit by a 9mm bullet at any range, including 100 yards.
By the way, I think he meant to say Vang Comp.
The .444 Marlin was a brainchild of Marlin employees Thomas Robinson and Arthur Burns. They made the first cases from unfinished .30-06 Sprg. brass before it was necked down and the rim turned to its final diameter. Burns presented prototype ammunition and a rifle chambered for it to Earl Larson at Remington, and since an official name for the cartridge had yet to be decided on, the first test ammunition loaded by Remington was head-stamped “.44 Mag”, because that bunter was on hand. It was later changed to “444 Marlin.” The ammunition featured the same 240-grain bullet being loaded by Remington in the .44 Mag.
Advertised velocity was 2,400 f.p.s., reduced to 2,350 f.p.s. soon after the barrel of the Model 444 rifle was shortened to 22”. The 240-grain bullet proved to be sudden death on deer, but elk and moose hunters desired more penetration on quartering shots, so in 1982, a 265-grain soft point at 2,120 f.p.s. was added. It was discontinued around 2010, but has returned to the Remington Express ammunition lineup with an average velocity of 2,239 f.p.s. from my rifles. Demand for the .444 Marlin increased when several shotgun-only states legalized the use of certain straight-wall centerfire cartridges.
The .444 Marlin is often incorrectly described as a lengthened version of the .44 Mag. The two cartridges do share the same rim and bullet diameters, but body diameter just forward of the extraction groove of factory ammo usually measures 0.464” to 0.467” for the .444 Marlin and 0.451” to 0.453” for the .44 Mag. SAAMI maximum chamber diameter for the .444 Marlin is 0.4747” so firing the .44 Mag. in a .444 Marlin rifle could result in a ruptured case and should not be done.
It would be interesting if Marlin came out with a new Model 444, but given the similarity of this cartridge with the 45-70, it may not happen.
See also Chuck Hawks, and American Hunter.
The wheel guns do actually experience muzzle rise before the bullet leaves the muzzle, albeit small, but small at the muzzle means big at the target.
I haven’t done a detailed analysis of it with a “free body diagram,” but I’m willing to bet that the reason this effects revolvers and we didn’t see it with semiautomatic handguns is that the round is in front of the hand rather than at the back of the gun, providing a force “couple.”
I won’t attach a picture here. You can research “couple.”
This is a good video. I’ve shot trap, and I didn’t know some of the rules of etiquette he covered. By the way, if you don’t shoot clays, you’re missing out on the most fun you’ll ever have.
A Georgia gun shop owner has decided to shutter his business, saying he does not want to be responsible for children dying in a mass shooting.
Jon Waldman opened Georgia Ballistics in Duluth in March 2021, hoping to get into a line of work that would survive the pandemic — but as gun sales increased across the country, Waldman noticed that the number of children impacted by mass shootings also shot up.
“I don’t want something that I’ve personally touched, that I’ve helped a client with be used on children,” Waldman told 11Alive. “What stops this [gun] from being used against my kid? That’s the problem I have, you never know the person getting it just because they pass a background check.”
Okay, whatever. On that logic, every person who works in pharmaceuticals should quit because people can overdose, including accidental ODs by unwatched children. Same thing for every cleaning chemical manufacturer, which also causes deaths of children every year. And every worker for a car manufacturer should quit because their vehicles can be used to cause roadways deaths (and there are tens of thousands of them every year).
Anyway, do you see that rifle he is holding? It’s an Ohio Ordnance HCAR. I sent him a note asking what he is charging for it. I have yet to receive a response. Or else, this is a stock photo and not really a picture of the guy selling the business, in which American journalists suck. But we already knew that.
An elk guide I know prefers his .357 with heavy hard-cast bullets. SA or DA, a .357 revolver can be made slimmer and lighter than a .44 Magnum. While big-bores have the clear edge in power, bullets of high sectional density from stiff .357 loads hit hard and bite deep. In auto pistols, the 10mm is more than a match, its 180- and 200-grain bullets packing over 600 ft-lbs. Buffalo Bore lists a 180-grain JHP at 1,350 FPS for 728 ft-lbs., also a 220-grain hard-cast at 1,200 FPS for 703 ft-lbs. This 10mm load is shared by Grizzly Cartridge, which also sells a 200-grain flat-nose at 1,250 FPS. Muzzle-energy: a “mere” 694 ft-lbs! Underwood wrings 676 ft-lbs. from a 150-grain solid at 1,425 FPS. Black Hills has a 10mm HoneyBadger load, the 115-grain fluted bullet exiting at 1,664 FPS with 695 ft-lbs.
The only round to challenge the 10mm in standard-size auto pistols is the .400 Corbon, developed in 1995 by Peter Pi on a necked .45 hull. It kicks 165-grain bullets at 1,300 FPS, for 619 ft-lbs. While the .400 Corbon is only commercially chambered in a few pistols, the 10mm appears in countless 1911 platforms and other autos from SIG, GLOCK and Springfield — even revolvers!
Why does no one ever discuss use of the 450 SMC for bear defense? I have carried a .44 magnum wheel gun before, but I’ve also carried a 1911 with a stronger spring loaded with 450 SMC cartridges. This round is 230 grains at > 1200 FPS, which matches the 10mm rounds he’s describing.
Furthermore, if that’s not enough out of a semiauto handgun, you can always bump up just a little bit to the 460 Rowland with a barrel and spring change. That gun will send a 250 grain round down range at 1300 FPS. There are kits for this modification.
While the Founders could not foresee all the specific advances that would take place in the nineteenth century, the Founders were well aware that firearms were getting better and better.
Tremendous improvements in firearms had always been part of the American experience. The first European settlers in America had mainly owned matchlocks. When the trigger is pressed, a smoldering hemp cord is lowered to the firing pan; the powder in the pan then ignites the main gunpowder charge in the barrel.
The first firearm more reliable than the matchlock was the wheel lock, invented by Leonardo da Vinci. In a wheel lock, the powder in the firing pan is ignited when a serrated wheel strikes a piece of iron pyrite. The wheel lock was the first firearm that could be kept loaded and ready for use in a sudden emergency. Although matchlock pistols had existed, the wheel lock made pistols far more practical and common. Paul Lockhart, Firepower: How Weapons Shaped Warfare 80 (2021).
The wheel lock was the “preferred firearm for cavalry” in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries. Id. The proliferation of wheel locks in Europe in the sixteenth century coincided with the homicide rate falling by half. See Carlisle E. Moody, Firearms and the Decline of Violence in Europe: 1200-2010, 9 Rev. Eur. Stud. 53 (2017)
However, wheel locks cost about four times as much as matchlock. Moreover, their moving parts were far more complicated than the matchlocks’. Under conditions of hard use in North America, wheel locks were too delicate and too difficult to repair. The path of technological advancement often involves expensive inventions eventually leading to products that are affordable to average consumers and are even better than the original invention. That has been the story of firearms in America.
The gun that was even better than the wheel lock, but simpler and less expensive, was the flintlock. The earliest versions of flintlocks had appeared in the mid-sixteenth century. But not until the end of the seventeenth century did most European armies replace their matchlocks with flintlocks. Americans, individually, made the transition much sooner. Lockhart at 106.
Indian warfare in the thick woods of the Atlantic seaboard was based on ambush, quick raids, and fast individual decision-making in combat—the opposite of the more orderly battles and sieges of European warfare. In America, the flintlock became a necessity.
Unlike matchlocks, flintlocks can be kept always ready. Because blackpowder is hygroscopic, and could be ruined by much water, it was common to store a firearm on the mantel above the fireplace. Another advantage, which mattered greatly in America but was mostly irrelevant for European warfare, is that a flintlock, unlike a matchlock, has s no smoldering hemp cord to give away the location of the user. Flintlocks are more reliable than matchlocks—all the more so in adverse weather, although still far from impervious to rain and moisture. Significantly, Flintlocks are much simpler and faster to reload than matchlocks. See, e.g., W.W. Greener, The Gun and Its Development 66-67 (9th ed. 1910); Charles C. Carlton, This Seat of Mars: War and the British Isles 1585-1746, at 171-73 (2011).
Initially, the flintlock could not shoot further or more accurately than a matchlock. Lockhart at 105. But it could shoot much more rapidly. A matchlock takes more than a minute to reload once. Id. at 107. In experienced hands, a flintlock could be fired and reloaded five times in a minute, although under the stress of combat, three times a minute was a more typical rate. Id. at 107-08. Compared to a matchlock, a flintlock was more likely to ignite the gunpowder charge instantaneously, rather than with a delay of some seconds. Id. at 104. “The flintlock gave infantry the ability to generate an overwhelmingly higher level of firepower.” Id. at 107.
[ … ]
In 1777 in Philadelphia, inventor Joseph Belton demonstrated a firearm that could fire 16 shots all at once. The committee watching the demonstration included General Horatio Gates, General Benedict Arnold, and scientist David Rittenhouse. They wrote to the Continental Congress and urged the adoption of Belton guns for the Continental Army. Congress voted to order a hundred–while requesting that they be produced as 8-shot models, since gunpowder was scarce. However, the deal fell through because Congress could not afford the high price that Belton demanded. Repeating arms were expensive, because their small internal components require especially complex and precise fitting.
Hence, the Founders who served in the Second Continental Congress were well aware that a 16-shot gun had been produced, and was possible to produce in quantity, for a high price. Delegates to the 1777 Continental Congress included future Supreme Court Chief Justice Samuel Chase, John Adams, Samuel Adams, Francis Dana, Elbridge Gerry, John Hancock, the two Charles Carrolls from Maryland, John Witherspoon (President of Princeton, the great American college for free thought), Benjamin Harrison (father and grandfather of two Presidents), Francis Lightfoot Lee, and Richard Henry Lee.
Likewise, the 22-shot Girardoni rifle famously carried by the Lewis & Clark expedition starting in 1803 was no secret, as it had been invented in 1779. It was used by the Austrian army as a sniper rifle. Powered by compressed air, its bullet his as hard as the modern Colt .45ACP cartridge. John Paul Jarvis, The Girandoni Air Rifle: Deadly Under Pressure, Guns.com, Mar. 15, 2011.
The Girardoni had a 21 or 22 round caliber tubular magazine, and could be quickly reloaded with 20 more rounds, using speedloading tubes that came with the gun. After about 40 shots, the air reservoir could be exhausted, and would need to be pumped up again.
As of 1785, South Carolina gunsmith James Ransier of Charleston, South Carolina, was advertising four-shot repeaters for sale. Columbian Herald (Charleston), Oct. 26, 1785.
Visit his article for further discussion of innovation, as well as the founders in literature and their own positions on development of weapons.
Suffice it to say that the founders would have been delighted with massively powerful and rapid firing weapons for the purpose of effecting quicker victory in the war of independence.
Also, note that innovations (except for crew served) almost always come from the civilian sector, even today. The 30-06 was a civilian round before it was used in the original M1. The .308 was introduced to the civilian market 2 years before adoption as the 7.62 by NATO. Even Stoner adopted (and adapted) a mostly civilian equivalent for his 5.56 round in the M16, and the AR-15 was introduced into the civilian market before it was ever adopted by the U.S. military.
Revolvers have been in existence for a very long time, and yet were adopted as one of the sidearms by the U.S. and British militaries and in use up through WWI and even a bit beyond (M1917). The venerable 1911 design by JMB may be the exception to the rule, having been designed for use by the military.
Don’t allow anyone to tell you that the founders would have felt differently about the second amendment had they known culture today. They’re just being emotional and ignorant. The founders would have said to spank the children and send them back to the schoolmaster to learn the bible, letters, mathematics and logic.
As I’ve said, I would enjoy listening to Ryan discuss paint drying.
Anyway, there is a lot of wisdom here, but the best thing is that I learned about the Spartan Bipod System. I had never seen this before. It doesn’t look any less expensive than other bipod manufacturers, and may be a bit pricier for the higher end models, but it seems to me to be worth it if it works as advertised.
I’ll have to look into one of these models. I’ll take one with the sling stud attachment, please, for the bolt gun I’ll take deer and hog hunting.
I said I would watch out for TFBTV discussing the Beretta 1301 with Ernest Langdon, and here it is. He also compares and contrasts it with the more recent Beretta patrol shotgun (A300 OS, different from the A400).
Here is another review of the Beretta A400 Xcel Black Edition shotgun. It’s a looker (and the A400 models have the same OS as the 1301), and I like the Walnut furniture. It has a black anodized receiver.