At Ammoland.

We have found 9 cases where .45 acp pistols were used to defend against bears. 6 against black bears, 3 against brown bears. All were successful.

I’d call that an overall good success rate. I’d still say carry 450 SMC with a 22# spring.

Found on social, here is the initial question:

I have a question about 45 ACP ammunition.

It appears to me that there are two weight classes of ammo: 230 and 185 grain. Why is this and what’s the correct weight to pick for a self defense and training? I will be shooting using a 5″ barrel 1911.

Thanks for your comments.

The answers were shallow, so the asker rephrased them in a way you might find interesting to discuss:

I think the question I have is two part (1) defensive ballistics and (2) training.

Defensive Ballistics:
Are the heavier or lighter rounds better with regards to hollow point bullets? Do people pick light bullets because they travel faster allowing better expansion? Does this matter, i.e., do both weights expand the same? I kind of like the idea of a heavier round that may impart higher energy to the target. What is the trade off between weight, velocity, energy, and expansion? Because there seem to be either heavy or light bullets, is the decision already clearly made?

Training:
When I purchase my 9mm ammo, I picked an carry round and training round that were identical weight and rated velocity. My assumption was that I would train using the cheaper ammo and carry the expensive ammo, but the feel of the shot would be the same. I was told by someone that carries 1911 that, “I train with 230 grain and carry 185 grain.” This makes no sense to me since I imagine that the two will have very different feel. Am I wrong?

Thanks,

Well, I train with 230 and carry 185, so maybe I’m wrong. I’m interested in feedback as well. Frankly, 230 JHP is expensive and often difficult to find because, I think, police departments are always buying it. His questions are excellent.

Ammoland.

The Army Ordnance folks around the beginning of the 20th Century had seen the failures of round-nosed, full-metal jacketed bullets in the British .303 rifles, and our own .30 U.S. Government (aka “.30-40 Krag”) in stopping a determined armed assailant.

They reasoned that since their .38 Long Colt Model 1892 revolvers had shown similarly poor results, and the re-issuance of the .45 SAA (Single Action Arm) into combat had added to the eventual defeat of the Philippine Moros, our military review board sought to adopt another large bore handgun. The British too paralleled this thought process, and as early as the mid-1880s they had already started issuing some of the first .455 Webley revolvers as a result.

By the middle of the first decade of the 20th Century, Colt was developing, along with the genius designer of most of their handguns, John Browning, a .45 cal. semi-automatic pistol. While the original development utilized a 200gr bullet at approximately 900 feet per second in 1906, the Ordnance Department subsequently desired a cartridge that approximated the old .45 Colt revolver cartridge in power, while being shorter in length than the substitute standard .45 S&W Schofield round.

Thus, the 230gr RN FMJ bullet at 850 fps nominal speed was created, and it found a home in the concurrently developed Colt Model 1911 pistol, the longest serving pistol of any military force to the best of my knowledge, some 75 years of official issue.

In the civilian world however, it has remained as popular as ever. Due to the existence of new generation jacketed hollow point bullets, it still retains its terminal ballistic advantages of expansion and consistent penetration compared to smaller bore diameter offerings. A recent detailed study indeed illustrated that the Federal HST 230gr standard pressure rounds offer 16” of penetration and consistent 0.85” of controlled expansion with no bullet fragmentation in an unofficial “FBI heavy clothing test” into simulated ballistic gelatin.

One other thing that is not mentioned much is that its stopping power is achieved without superior “sectional density,” high pressure, or high velocity. It operates at a very low 21,000 copper units of pressure, it has no supersonic crack, and is, therefore, nearly ideal for use with a suppressor. The recoil, while “there,” is more a push than a quick snap, while controlled-pairs shooting aimed rapid-fire are pretty easy to do out to ten yards and can usually be within an inch of each other. I’ve done it, and I’m just not that great a shot.

Moreover, the . 45 ACP cartridge has long borne the brunt of technical development as a precision target shooting round as well as being a supremely controllable defense round. In both the original 230gr RN,FMJ format for “hardball matches,” as well as reduced weight 185gr and 200g target matches, it remains one of the most accurate service pistol rounds extant.

And of course, with the hotter loads you can get from Buffalo Bore and Double Tap, you can send a 230 grain ball at around 1050 FPS, or a 450 SMC at 1120 FPS, and be okay for defense against large predators.

I like the push instead of the snap.  I love shooting the .45 ACP more than any other cartridge, pistol or rifle.

To me it’s not just a competition or self defense round.  If somebody said, “Hey we’re headed to the range, grab a gun,” the first thing I’d reach for is a 1911.

Recall I said I had some range time, including with the CMMG PSB .45 ACP?

I kept some of the brass and noticed something for the second time I shot this particular firearm.  Some of the brass has burn marks down one side, like this.

That brass is Federal .45 ACP.  Some of the brass is clean and well-rounded.

That brass is from Double Tap 450 SMC.

Other .45 ACP ammunition I shot didn’t have the burn mark.  I looked more closely at the Federal brass, and noticed what I think is ovality, even to the naked eye.

Given that some brands of .45 ACP can be shot in this gun (along with 450 SMC) with clean results (I also shot a good bit of Freedom Munitions .45 ACP with clean results), I’ve concluded some manufacturers are selling brass that is slightly out-of-round.

I think this is interesting, and I thought I would pass it on.

Marine Corps Times:

A young Marine lieutenant killed 51 years ago while holding off an enemy ambush was awarded a long overdue Silver Star for battlefield heroics at a ceremony held Tuesday.

I do love the .45 ACP round so much, and with John Basilone, there is no shortage of Marines who had to fight with their pistol, and did so very well.

He gave his life in the service of his men.  I wonder why not a CMH?  It can be awarded posthumously.